Ambersons "Rumor" - Complete cut supposedly destroyed, but..

[Dylan S]

Hello,

I have a question regarding the "Magnificent Ambersons" that I believe some here may be able to answer. I don't believe it was here, but I read somewhere online that a man claims to have went to a movie theater to see "Magnificent Ambersons" sometime in the 1960's, and miraculously what was screened to him was the 132 minute version of the film, thought to have been destroyed by RKO. I believe this was a recently published article in a magazine, and I would be interested in hearing additional information about this man's claim if anybody remembers the article. Thank you. Take care.

Best Regards,
Dylan

[Jeff Wilson]

This was from the January 2002 Vanity Fair article on the film, which is discussed in another thread here. It's a very good article, one worth tracking down.

[Harvey Chartrand]

An intriguing notion.
Perhaps the basis for an urban legend or Twilight Zone episode.
The original, uncut The Magnificent Ambersons becomes the Marie Céleste of motion pictures, with sightings in run-down theatres in out-of-the-way places like Patagonia and Gozo.
Jonathan Rosenbaum goes on a brave quest to track down this Holy Grail of lost films, but is warned that death comes to those who see the uncut Ambersons.
Gives me the chills just thinking about it.....

[Jeff Wilson]

It wouldn't be the first time something in that line has been attempted; years ago, I read a novel called Glimmers, I believe, about a guy who found he could "slip back" in time. Being a music fan, he went back to help spur the completion of the Beach Boys' lost Smile album and a lost Doors album, as well trying to save Jimi Hendrix. It played into that fascination we have with re-discovering works previously thought lost, particularly if we can somehow play a role in it. Another such novel was a Ramsey Campbell horror novel that involved a lost Lugosi-Karloff movie, the name of which escapes me. But the idea has certainly been done before.

[Harvey Chartrand]

I read 'Ancient Images' by Ramsey Campbell and highly recommend it. Supposedly, Karloff and Lugosi made a quota quickie in Great Britain in the mid-30s. The director was an Alastair Crowley necromancer-type and the film was so disturbing that it was never released. Anyone who saw 'Ancient Images' was doomed.

[Lance Morrison]

Jeff, I have that same book, Glimpses by Lewis Shiner....since the only rock music I like is from the 60's and 70's, I loved lots of the book.....most especially when he went back and hung out with Brian Wilson and helped him finish SMiLE....I love when Brian is at the helm of the Beach Boys, there is a certain glow to the songs, including the SMiLE songs that were close to completion....but I did feel like reading that book that I knew Bri personally and had dreams of hanging out with him....

I do think someone needs to write a book/screenplay about searching for the complete Ambersons...I get the feeling only the pure of heart are allowed to see it, which sucks for me

[Fredric]

I actually started working on a post-apocalypse-type novel, in which this omega-man character travels the desolate country finding factions of remaining souls. He finds the original cut of MA in the attic of the UVA library in several cans labeled "How to Brush Your Teeth".

[Harvey Chartrand]

In today's news: On the shores of Loch Ness in the Scottish Highlands, retired scrap dealer Gerald McSorley, who recently had a hip replaced, stumbled and fell into the water -- where his hand felt a strange object. When he brought it to a museum in Edinburgh to have it examined by experts, they told him it was the 150 million-year-old fossilized vertebrae of what was likely a plesiosaur. Scottish scientists are now conferring on the discovery of bones matching those of the Loch Ness monster.

With this major discovery, and a possible breakthrough in the Jimmy Hoffa case, is it too much to hope that someday, somewhere, a perfectly preserved print of the original Ambersons will be found?

[Harvey Chartrand]

The just-ended Bologna Film Festival included Swedish director Victor Sjöstrom's hitherto 'missing' first Hollywood movie, Name the Man (1923), taken from a novel by Hall Caine. Two prints of the film were found recently in Russia, but both lacked the original ending.


Just goes to show you that if we all dig in our heels and hang in there, we might live long enough to witness the discovery of the original uncut Magnificent Ambersons.

[Glenn Anders]

Hiya, fellas: Has anyone checked with Rick Schmidlin lately about his negotiations with a film vault in Rio for a 16mm copy of the long version of THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS? It is said to be the copy that RKO sent to Rio when the plan was for Robert Wise to go down there to work on it with Welles. My understanding is that the vault, owned by a Brazilian familly, impounded for unpaid storage fees this copy, along with a lot of footage Welles had shot for IT'S ALL TRUE. Part of that footage was released after the death of the owner's widow, and was used in Richard Wison's documentary on IT'S ALL TRUE.

Supposedly, the heirs to the vault have been hinting ever since that, if the price were right, they could come up with the 16mm copy of . . . AMBERSONS.

I understand Schmidlin, about a year ago, had been trying to have Warner Brothers investigate, and if the copy does exist, to negotiate for it.

Has anyone heard details of this story of late?

See ya, fellas.

Glenn

[Fat Annie]

Jaime Marzol,

What is the status of the Amberson's reconstruction you're working on?

[Peter Tonguette]

Glenn,

I've never even heard of this thing you talk about re: Rick Schmidlin and "Ambersons". Exciting (but, then, I hang on every word uttered about the possible discovery of the original version... as I'm sure we all do.)

I know this isn't the "Trading" section of the board, but I've long lost my copy of the superb "Ambersons" article from Vanity Fair. If anyone has a copy, and is willing, could they contact me off-list (ptonguette@aol.com) about possibly making me a xerox?

Peter

[mteal]

Fat Annie,
To answer your question about the Ambersons project, a prototype of the project is finished, using storyboards, stills, voiceover narration, and music to give a sense of the missing scenes. I sent the first copy to majoramberson who created the wonderful Ambersons website at

http://www.ambersons.com

and who also worked on the prototype. He liked it and said he'll be doing some more work for it. I'm sending another copy to Jaime M. this week, and he may want to modify it himself. The prototype (or "rough sketch" might be a better description) is done, but badly flawed throughout, and will need to be redone, or at least reassembled. Much it was done with 2 VCRs and an LD player, without benefit of computer, so picture quality is only fair. I'll probably take another stab at it this winter.

We're still playing around with ideas for the Ambersons project, but it has essentially been put on hold for now, because a writer friend of Jaime's advised him that a restoration of THE STRANGER would be sellable in the marketplace, since THE STRANGER is public domain, and AMBERSONS is not. As a result, Jaime is going full-steam ahead with a reconstruction of Welles' original cut of THE STRANGER, which was trimmed by about 20 minutes for it's original theatrical release. I'm also involved in this project, but in a more peripheral way then Ambersons. However, I've seen some of Jaime's work so far, and it's very impressive.

Maybe if THE STRANGER project goes well, it can be used to obtain permission or even funding for a finalization of the Ambersons project. Of course, if Rick Schmidlin gets ahold of that 16mm Ambersons print in Rio, there'll be no need to finish it.

[colwood]

Glenn,

As Peter said, it would be exciting if the footage existed, but as many things regarding Welles have shown, I'm not going to get my hopes too high.

In an article about Ambersons, I thought I remember reading that because of the climate in Brazil, after 60 years film stock would be damaged beyond repair when viewed today, unless it were specially stored which, assuming the family's claim is true, doesn't sound like they did.

[Glenn Anders]

Dear Colwood: The chances are that you are correct, but I did personally hear Schmidlin say to a small group of us that he had an agent exploring the possibility in Rio, prior to a sit-down with Warner Brothers. It was after a showing of his restoration of Von Stroheim's GREED, at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, last year. I had walked out into the lobby next to the professor who organized the showing, and I asked the professor about all the stills excised material which exist from AMBERSONS (some of it on the wonderful site cited above). Could not, I asked, a restoration similar to the one done for GREED be undertaken for AMBERSONS? [Like the one Jaime is involved with.] The good professor said, no, there were not enough stills.

That's when Rick Schmidlin, walking behind us, chimed in with the story I have related.

If it is true (which was not part of Schmidlin's report) that some of the IT'S ALL TRUE footage was found in the same vault, then the preservation must have been pretty good.

And what a wonderful idea to do the same thing with THE STRANGER! That film might have been an important masterpiece, instead of a good suspense film, if the 20 minutes showing the Nazi's ratline trail through South America had been retained.

We can only hope in these matters, but I ask again, was not Schmidlin, at one time, a member of Wellesnet?

Glenn