Ambersons Reconstruction - ideas, ideas

[Store Hadji]

As I haven't seen the recent cut I shall reserve comment.

I do wonder how many stills from the missing scenes we could find. Why should so many have remained from Greed in 1925 but so few from Ambersons?

[Dylan S]

Hello Welles fans,

My name is Dylan. I am sixteen, and my many passions include black and white movies, Bernard Herrmann, stop-motion animation, old movies and scores, and black and white cinematography (I know, it's pretty uncommon for a teen living in today's world to have a passion for these things, but here I am). Of course, I am a huge fan of Welles, as his black and white work is without a doubt some of the finest to ever grace film. I had no idea there was a little group of Welles fans online at a forum, and it's nice I found this site. Today, I experianced The Magnificent Ambersons for the first time (I had seen parts of it on tv, and I read/researched a lot from various books about it's tragic history prior to my viewing). Like many, I thought of it to be an extraordinary and beautiful film, even with the knowledge of the cuts. I was already in love with Herrmann's poetic score, from the material I had heard from Herrmann's recording 'Welles Raises Kane', Herrmann's tribute to Welles that consisted of themes from both Ambersons and Kane. I was actually expecting to hear less of his music in the released version, and was surprised that most of the music heard in the film is his (the last two scenes, of course, were scored by Roy Webb, who also scored the original Cat People and some film noir movies). I don't have the Magnificent Ambersons cd yet, as it is out of print, but I am anxious to hear how Herrmann developed the themes for the heartbreaking finale.

I am most intrigued by this Ambersons restoration project that a few Welles fans here are organizing, and I would love to view what you have accomplished so far. Is there anyway somebody here can make a copy of the workprint restoration available to me?

I like the ideas discussed. If I was a little older, had more money, and more equipment, an expressionistic stop-motion paper cut out sequence for the restoration would be interesting to tackle (as I stated above, one of my passions is stop-motion, something I have greatly studied, though I'm just now getting to do a little of), but then again, it would make the entire thing a bit too surreal (and of course, it's something that would take an enormous amount of time and effort).

I love the idea of opening and closing the film with the narrator, somebody sitting in a chair near a fireplace (filmed in black and white of course, make it very poetic and have the cinematography be in the Welles signirture style)...and having the film cut to the narrator where a scene was deleted- have him tell us what's happening, then cutting back to the film. How about somebody who looks like Welles, and have a Welles impresonator dub the dialogue?

Well, I better get going. Take care.

Best Regards,
Dylan

[ChristopherBanks]

Welcome on board, Dylan.

I am a huge Herrmann fan myself, and would love to find a decent biography, preferably one that is music-focussed. There is a man (a certain man!) who keeps popping up in the Hitchcock DVD docos who is a Herrmann historian - has he written a bio? Anyone?

Roy Webb, on the other hand, has to be at the bottom of the barrel of old-Hollywood composers. Was he always intended to score "Journey into Fear", or is there a missing Herrmann score there too?

[Jeff Wilson]

There is a well-done Herrmann bio by a guy named Steven Smith, called Heart at Fire's Center: The Life and Music of Bernard Herrmann, which covers his music and life in equal measure. Focuses more on the film work than his other stuff (like radio), but it's worth getting if you're a Herrmann fan.

[jaime marzol]

.................

is it one that starts off with credit shots of hitchcock movies? that one had several musicians discussing his style and method, and his angst. is that the one you are talking about?

if it's not, the one i mention, i think is excellent. exciting news to have a second excellent docu with more insight into the music.

i really enjoyed the stuff about his anger, bad mouthing people, depressed. pretty impressive that he would take his name off aambersons that early in his movie carreer. the others involved, cotten, moorhead, holt, wise, opted to give the film (and welles) the 'julius ceaser christmas-hog treatment.'

[Dylan S]

Hi,

Yes, Steven C. Smith's "A Heart at Fire's Center" is an extraordinary and beautifully accomplished book on Bernard Herrmann's life and music. Included in the book is a wonderful photo of "Benny" Herrmann with Orson Welles, around the time of Citizen Kane. There is also a documentary called "Music from the Movies: Bernard Herrmann." It is a great documentary, and an excellent opportunity to see video footage of Herrmann himself. The program is a bit too short, clocking in at about 58 minutes, but it's still quite nice, and it was nominated for an Oscar as best documentary.

My favorite Herrmann score is his intensely romantic "Obsession," from the film by Brian DePalma. Following "Obsession" would be his Twilight Zone scores "Walking Distance" and "The Lonely" ("Citizen Kane" is in my top ten). Musically, my love is Herrmann.

As far as Roy Webb goes, yeah, he's one of my least favorites as well. He scored a lot of film noirs (many great ones, like Out of the Past, etc.) and while his music never really hurt the film, there were many composers that over-all better understood the surreal and romantic atmosphere of those films and would've done a much better job (I'm refering especially to Miklos Rozsa, who wrote the gorgeous and darkly romantic score for "Spellbound," an example that proves that he could flawlessly create a perfect atmosphere for a film noir {Spellbound isn't considered a film noir of course, but if you listen to the music, you'll see how he understood how to combine the beautiful and the bizzare...two key elements also present in many film noirs, though not often demonstrated in the music}...Herrmann did one film noir, "On Dangerous Ground," and while I haven't seen the film yet {it's difficult to obtain}, I have heard his score, which is very excellent).

[jaime marzol]

..................

oops, i didn't notice jeff said bio, i thought he was talking about a documentary.

yes, MUSIC FOR THE MOVIES: BERNARD HERRMANN is excellent, and way too short. i could have handled a 2-hr segment on such an iteresting topic, with such interesting speakers, and excellent researchers.

the series, MUSIC FOR THE MOVIES, has come a long way. not long ago i saw their first tape, a trite, pedestrian offering of movie clips and related footage. then to have been nominated for an oscar on that tremendous herrmann docu.

just goes to show you, try, try, try till you get it right.