help identifying Ambersons cues

[bord]

Hi all,
I am 99% done with a small Ambersons project and I need a little bit of help identifying one of the music cues.

I have taken a Criterion laserdisc rip and used the video, along with stills from the carringer book and a clip or two from the trailer to create an 'illustrated' version of the Tony Bremner recording of the Ambersons score. It isn't a complete narrative, but a great way to give visual context to the score.

The only problem I have left is identifying the cue: Isabel's Return. Going between Carringer's text and the booklet from the CD case I simply cannot find it. The closest thing I can find according to descriptions is the Romanza, which is essentially Jack's return.

If anyone can give me some help in identifying the piece I would really appreciate it.


While I am starting a new thread I will also throw out another question to anyone who might have more information: How many stills of cut Ambersons material exist outside of what is in Carringers book and floating around the net (at Ambersons.com etc)? My next project is a reconstruction essay and I have limited resources as far as stills are concerned.

Best,
bord

[Tony]

bord: you should ask Roger Ryan, a member here. Just in case you don't know, he did a reconstruction of Ambersons a while ago.

"Second Nocturne" must be the same as "Isabel's Return" as it's between the "Romanza" and the "Departure". Check it with the film, if it's in the film. I have always found the Preamble Ambersons cd completely confusing as to what is what.

[bord]

thanks tony, i'll check with roger too.

the second nocturne is actually a second missing night veranda scene, this time with fanny and the major. the recorded score places it out of sequence with the original film continuity, another problem with this recording.

the isabel's return cue was recorded originally but dropped from the final cut of the film, though most of the scene still appears. most of the music cues are very close in length to the scenes to which they correspond, even the romanza, whose scene is 90% missing, matches up timewise with what is in the script... but i can't find anything to match isabel's return. perhaps it simply didn't make the recording.

[Roger Ryan]

Hello bord - You are correct that "Isabel's Return" did not make the Bremner CD; in fact, I believe the liner notes mention this omission. One must assume it wasn't a substantial enough cue to warrant inclusion. Personally, I thought the scene would play better with music, so for my reconstruction I reused the later cue that plays when George learns of his mother's death from Fanny. I'm fairly certain the "Isabel's Return" cue was cut from the film because it bridged the carriage ride into the hallway scene in the original edit. When the hallway scene was deleted (along with a few seconds of the carriage ride), the cue probably no longer worked (Check Page 2 in the "Welles And New Digital Technologies" thread for more info on how I utilized the Bremner recording).

There are quite a few "Ambersons" stills available in the Lilly Library collection in Bloomington, IN, many of which show up in the Carringer and Bogdanovich books. Some are actual frame enlargements from the cut footage...although, unfortunately, it seems that some of these may have disappeared or been misplaced over time. Joseph McBride has mentioned seeing a frame enlargement of the final matte shot of the dark, looming city as Eugene's car pulls away from the boarding house; this was in 1970 when Bogdanovich had possession of supposedly 70 - 100 such stills. According to McBride, Bogdanovich claims to have turned over all of those photos to Oja Kodar who may still have them in a box somewhere in her Croatian home!

[bord]

Thank you, Roger. I really appreciate the information! I guess I can call this part of my project complete then.