Don Quijote

[tonyw]

We must also remember that depression (like any other form of mentall iln ess) during this era was not understaood and blamed on the person suffering from it. It was their responsibility to "pull themselves" together or accept the condition as their own fault (an axiom used in the Thatcher and, perhaps, the Reagan era) to justify cutbacks in health. To his credit Welles understodd that it was not the Hemingway he knew who committed suicide. Also, in his era, alocoholism was used to deal with the problem as well as PTSD. Many of my Vietnam veteran friends do not indulge to the extent they once used to since they know the dangers.

Unfortunately, depression comes with the artistic temprament. Did not Abel Gance destroy footage of NAPOOLEON following its poor reception? Welles may have asked himself at times "Was it worth it?" and perhaps moved on to new projects to overcome the feelings he had over older ones when the money was not available to complete them in the manner he wished.

[Glenn Anders]

BINGO!

[ToddBaesen]

While I can see Welles an a "Manic" I see nothing in his entire history to label him as a depressive. He always seemed to be hoping for the best.

However, that dosen't mean I'm correct, and wouldn't it be interesting to reconsider Welles career if indeed he was a "Manic-Depressive?"

Meanwhile here's a letter Welles wrote to an unamed friend or lover that is currently up for auction on Ebay. I wonder who he wrote it to. Could it be Oja? Since it's not dated, and no addresse is mentioned, it's another Welles mystery. Anyone have any other ideas?

ORSON WELLES TO (an unknown correspondent):

I have such a lot to explain away, beloved friend, and to be sorry for. My indebtedness is a world without end, certainly. So I’ve determined to do nothing about it: That which is endless is without beginning, a Cathay sage droned through his venerable beard three millenniums before the syndication of platitudes and the advent of Arthur Brisbane, and foolish indeed, he continued, is the industry of one seeking to bail out the ocean.

“All of this silence” --- “a matter of years” --- I am shattering it with the harsh note of a typewriter. -- and with this anti-cordial clattering I rend the veil only to shriek at you a rude refusal, only to levy from the Levy’s further indulgence, an extension of badly-taxed patience. Your invitation for the twenty-fifth sounds hugely exciting and I should revel in accepting it. Were I winged as the scriptural seraph, I should. But woe! Woe! I have my work and my hay-fever. Shan’t be back among the pale-faced until almost October. But bear with me dear girl, and if you’re all still willing, we’ll have colossal reunion heaps soon thereafter.

My love, I am your grateful and regretful –Orson.

________

On your heart and body lay this string of beads, I made for you,

Orson




Endless love without beginning made you sing.
Love bedazzled and made a fool of you.
So often sadness killed you, you got away with it.
You spoke so much of sadness that sadness became you.

-Rumi

[Tony]

Mido:

As regarding the Deep, I can't recall (sorry) where I read or heard all that stuff. Last year I seemed to be involved with that period, and I have a Croation doc, and interviews with Willy Kurant, and on-line interviews and some other things. About Jeanne's refusing to go to Paris: I recall a single instance of that being reported, but I'm not sure I reported it here. As for the battle on the boat, that's Willy Kurant I believe. Actually, it's more detailed than I wrote: all work came to a stop (this was on The Deep) as the two actresses (Moreau and Kodar- though calling the latter an actress is really an untruth) had their agents battle it out. Really an extraordinary display of ego. I can't recall if it was regarding billing or salary. It seems Kodar won, as is shown by the Welles statement "You're not 24 anymore". But how much is apocryphal, even by eyewitnesses? This much is for sure: Kodar can't act, she and Moreau had a battle, Moreau never worked with Welles again, even though she was invited to work on TOSOTW. It seems a great loss, and neither woman has spoken publicly about it, to my knowledge.

As for the eternal question of Welles not finishing things, I read (I think in the Peter Toungette (is that it?) book in an interview with an assisstant on The Fountain of Youth that Welles would never have finished the TV show if they hadn't taken it away from him because he loved to edit things forever, and this was a big reason the series didn't continue: no exec trusted that Welles could deliver a show a week.

I'm sure they were right, and that's why we love Welles, right?

[MartynH]

It's amazing but true, artists generally tend to have a very complicated private life and Welles was no different! It seems to me this problem of the two leading ladies is an example of this. Making a film is hard enough but to get this grief was probably a bridge too far for Welles. But he was culpable in all of this.

A lot of the problems we have with the Welles estate is built on this foundation.

[The Night Man]

Night Man:

You make a very good point regarding Welles' health in the last decade of his life, but I think that that would pertain more towards shooting a film than towards the editing. Certainly, Welles' legendary stamina had diminished with age, but shooting on THE DEEP, TOSOTW, DQ, and other projects was had been for the most part completed. For DQ, we have ample evidence that a nearly complete workprint did exist up until the early 80's; and there is evidence for and against that THE DEEP was pretty much finished. But only 40 minutes of TOSOTW edited by Welles? After 10 years? As Lucy points out, if money was an issue, why start new projects when old ones were incomplete? Why put wine commercial money into THE DREAMERS when it could be used to finish editing an earlier project? It makes no sense.

Regarding Welles' health, could he have been suffering from depression? Was he perhaps an undiagnosed manic depressive?... I would not be surprised if Welles' considerable alcohol intake throughout his life was not some form of self-medication.

Mido, we can never know for certain about Welles' psychological state but he certainly had plenty to be depressed about in those last fifteen years, and depression could in part account for his inability to complete these projects. The euphoria of inspiration and invention, as well as the conviviality of film production, could have sustained him physically and emotionally through the shooting of new undertakings, but the more solitary tasks of editing and post-production may have simply become too oppressive for him. And whatever the reason for Welles' heavy drinking, without a doubt alcohol will cloud one's judgement as surely it must have done his.

[Roger Ryan]

I understand that there was a period during the shooting of "Ambersons" where Welles was described as being in a prolonged "dark mood". Some biographers have tried to use this to suggest that Welles was aware his follow-up to "Citizen Kane" was a failure (or, in Carringer's essay, that he was personally vexed by the material), but it makes just as much sense that Welles might have suffered from a mild form of bi-polar disorder. The quick changes in temperment have been noted by virtually all who crossed his path, so it's a possibility. I stress, however, that if he did suffer from this, it could not have been especially pronounced or else it would have found its way onto the first page of every biography.

[Tony]

I remember Robert Arden recounting a time when he met Welles at the airport and said "Hi" and Welles flipped out: instantly got incredibly angry and was yelling nonsense like "You don't say 'Hi' to the DIRECTOR!". Arden walked away thinking "I'm not gonna work with a maniac", but seconds later a different Welles caught up with him, apologizing profusely and charming him into staying with the picture.

And I saw an interview with one of the editors of Don Quixote who recalled a time at Cinecitta when he told Welles that a certain sequence didn't work; Welles ripped the door of the studio off its hinges; seconds later, he said: "Of course, you're right!".

Sounds kind of bi-polar to me. And as we all know, there are a thousand Welles stories just like these two.

[mido505]

Wow, so many fascinating and insightful contributions to this discussion! There are so many points I want to address, but I will settle on this very interesting statement from ToddBaesen: "While I can see Welles an a 'Manic' I see nothing in his entire history to label him as a depressive. He always seemed to be hoping for the best". This is, of course, absolutely true; there is a huge component of optimism in Welles' temperamental makeup, along with the darkness and chaos. To help resolve this dichotomy, I offer this quotation from ONE MAN BAND (footage taken from, I believe, FILMING THE TRIAL): "I am a profound pessimist, with a sentimental inclination to hope that Pangloss was right, and that I'm wrong. I have a sentimental inclination towards hope; I believe in bravery, and worship it; to me it's one of the greatest virtues there are; and the fact that I'm a pessimist is part of what gives bravery such an importance to me...don't call me a macho, that's not what I'm talking about." Pangloss is the character from Voltaire's CANDIDE, who believes that this is "the best of all possible worlds".

Welles had no affinity with that superficial, post-Existential pessimism which is a pose, a mood, and an excuse for inaction. His take on THE TRIAL is a brilliant attack on that attitude, and Anthony Perkins' great speech as K, when he condemns those who would have us believe that the whole world is "meaningless, absurd" conveys, I believe, Welles' basic conviction. K's defiant Promethean laughter at the end of THE TRIAL is a great big F-You from Orson to a mad universe.

But Welles was not Dr. Pangloss, either; he did not believe that this is "the best of all possible worlds." Rather, I would catagorize Welles as what Nietzsche called a "tragic pessimist "- one whose enlightened insight enables him to see into the "heart of darkness" at the center of life; yet who celebrates life nonetheless, and who, through the process of artistic creation, conjures up a world of meaning out of the chaos. Nietzsche admired bravery, too.

Thus, I think, Welles' "depression", his "melancholy", his "pessimism", was central to his personalilty, by way of a keen philosophical insight; but by a huge effort of creative will, he was able to overcome despair and shine a light into the darkness. And what a light it was.

Welles brought true tragic insight, the insight of Shakespeare, of the Greek playwrights, and yes, of Hemingway, to the movies. He was one of the few, maybe the only one. It was a tremendous achievement, but it cost him commercial success; Americans are not, really, at heart, at least not yet, a tragic people; we are, for better or worse, optimists and go-getters. Andy Hardy flourishes here, and Superman, not Lear. But that is as it should be, and, success or not, we still have those incomparable masterpieces Welles was able to give us.

Of all the incomplete works and missed opportunities that litter Welles' creative life, for me the greatest tragedy was that he did not live to complete KING LEAR. Forget DQ; forget TOSOTW; forget TCWR and BBR. Forget even AMBERSONS; for me, it's LEAR. I think Welles would have given us the greatest LEAR the world had yet seen, a proper companion piece to CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT. For he would have shown us what happens to the King. He was ready for that play; he was born for it. Was he working on the LEAR script when he died, alone, in LA? I think I read that, somewhere. I have a sentimental hope that, when the first pains hit, and the irony struck him, old Orson laughed that magnificent laugh of his, one last time.

-As flies to wanton boys, are we to the gods. they kill us for their sport-
spoken by the blinded Gloucester in Shakespears's KING LEAR

-There are never many, never enough of them, but there are men born into the world with a gaze fixed on the widest possible horizon, men who can see without strain, beyond the most distant horizon, into that unconquered country we call the future-
Orson Welles, from ONE MAN BAND

[Tony]

Mido:

Well, you've just written about the finest thing I've ever read on Welles. But I must disagree on one point: had he completed anything in the 80s, I think it would not have been his best, as his health was so bad. I recall Suzanne Cloutier saying he was in a wheelchair to accept his French Legionnaire award, and that was 82. I think the last time he really looked healthy and strong was the AFI awards in 75; after Wind collapsed, he started to look weak and shaky, from around 77 on. So part of me is relieved that he didn't direct any more after that, as possibly the work wouldn't have been up to his standards.

Of course, I wish he had completed his B&W work: BBR, DQ and Lear, but from in a healthy condition: I'd have hated for him to finish a picture or two in the 80s which were really weak and have him attacked at the end of his career: better, perhaps, for him to not spoil his ouvre. Wouldn't it have been better for Kubrick to have not done Eyes Wide Shut, and for Hitchcock to have stopped after the Birds? Those fellows perhaps made too many movies (even though Kubrick only completed a dozen.) Most directors, I think, make too many movies.

[mido505]

Thank you, Tony, for your kind and generous praise; it really means a lot to me. I admit that I mostly agree with you regarding your concern about the impact of Welles' ill health on his last few proposed productions. I would like to believe that LEAR might have had a chance. Welles seems to have designed it around his physical limitations - stark, spare, shot mostly in close up. The result would have been rough; would the format have allowed the tremendous emotional impact of the play to come through? Maybe, maybe not. I guess we will never know. It doesn't matter. The movies that we do have are enough. We are lucky to have those. You are right; most directors make too many movies (Woody Allen, anyone). At least with Welles we can never say that...

[Phil Rosenthal]

I think Welles was still capable of producing some of the best work of his career in his later years - especially at the very end of his life. One of the most interesting of Welles' interviews was his last, on Merv Griffin, his last night alive. He had lost a lot of weight, he was eager to talk about his career with Merv, and he looked like he had energy for whatever might come next. During the last months of his life, it looked like was about to direct "The Cradle Will Rock". I think it's a good script, and could have been one of his better films, more autobiographical than his other work, and capturing such an exciting moment in theatrical history. So anyway I think he was still capable of great work, if the opportunities had come to him.

[tonyw]

Quite obviously, Tony, you disagree with Robin Wood who has written and spoken on the DVD commentary of MARNIE that "if you don't like MARNIE you don't like cinema." I don't want to go off topic with a discussion of this film nor defend EYES WIDE SHUT which I (and others) believe to be a major achievement that has suffered the usual fate of dismissal on release then recognition a decade or so later (BARRY LYNDON, THE SHINING e.g). We are also on the grounds of discussing the difference between the late films and early films issue but I would not go so far as to defend Chaplin's A KING IN NEW YORK and A COUNTESS FROM HONG KONG.

But, I'd like to respond on the issue of Welles's health. If Seijun Suzuki can direct Zhang Ziyi in PRINCESS RACOON (TANAKI-GOTEN) with the aid of an oxygen mask similar to John Huston on THE DEAD, I see no reason why Welles could not have completed more films had the finance and support become available. His health was mush better than that of Nicholas Ray whose last completed contribution to WET DREAMS was the most erotic and uninspiring of all the episodes in that soft porn collection. By contrast, the surviving footage of THE DREAMERS is astonishing and makes us want for more. Unfortunately, this did not happen but most of Welles uncompleted projects are far better than the type of product churned out by Hollywood today, particularly by one superstar director who could have helped him get THE CRADLE WILL ROCK started - but chose not to. Welles would not have churned out product but would have remained true to his artistic sensibility no matter the state of his health.

[tonyw]

Typo. "least erotic" for WET DREAMS. Sorry!

[nextren]

I must agree that Welles's health seemed a little better at the end. He was losing weight (not for reasons of ill health, I believe). He was swimming every day (according to, I think, Leaming). He had exciting projects coming up. He had things to live for.

Outlook is important. It can affect health. People with nothing to live for often have physical complaints because of that outlook; while people with physical complaints generally find these subsiding at least temporarily if there is a very exciting future ahead. (Generally speaking, of course; it really isn't one-to-one cause and effect.) Motivation cannot overcome real problems - terminal cancer, etc. - but with malleable problems it helps to have a strong motivation, a confidence in some belief or value, a good outlook on the future, etc.