Wellesnet Message Board

by **Harvey Chartrand** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:15 am

Here is an excerpt from Dan Jardine's Apollo Guide Review of the Working with Welles DVD (http://apolloguide.com/mov_fullrev.asp? ... cific=1397):
"Furthermore, Gary Graver shamelessly pads this superficial study with a series of innocuous screen tests as well as a full-length trailer for Citizen Kane and the twelve-minute trailer for F for Fake, which no one would distribute because of its excessive length (it is hard to see how a prudent trimming would have damaged its effectiveness. It is too cute and clever by half). "

Has anyone on this message board ever seen the F for Fake trailer?
Was it assembled or directed by Welles?
Why would anyone produce a 12-minute trailer for an 85-minute film?
Does the trailer include scenes that do not appear in the film?

by **Obssessed_with_Orson** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:11 pm

i wouldn't say it was cute...clever yes, but not cute. and it was just a bit too long.

i don't really know if any of it is in the movie. haven't seen it yet. just the trailer. but i don't think so. they are discribing what is going to be in it, mostly. quoting critics, when it will come out, why who did what, mostly of oja or her character. and a little ending of how people probably never started discussing, or seeing, ufos and similar subjects until after orson's WOTW radio broadcast.

bye now!

by **jbrooks** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:13 pm

I've seen the long trailer. It is also included on the Criterion "F for Fake" Laserdisc. Sadly, it seems to only exist in a black & white workprint. Welles compiled the trailer himself, and it does include original material not included in the film itself. In a sense, it's a short film by Welles. I don't know what market Welles thought there was for a 12-minute movie trailer, but then again, I don't know what market there ever was for an 85-minute quasi-documentary about art forgery. Of course, I'm a big fan of the film and the trailer so I'm glad Welles didn't let the lack of likely market interest stand in the way of what he wanted to do.

by **jaime marzol** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:29 pm

................

i was also not thrilled with the trailer. in the graver documentary, he says something like, "wow, how could they not want a trailer by orson welles?" then he showed the work print. being a hardcore fan and all, sadly, i understood why they didn't want it. i thought it missed the mark, but i am just a mortal, so who knows.

by **fantomas** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:49 pm

i like the F FOR FAKE trailer very much, it's a kind of parody and it's much crazier than the film itself. a restored color version was shown in the german welles conference - put together with the shots from a brandnew F FOR FAKE print and with outtakes of the additionally shot material. it looked magnificent. there are people (gary graver, michael stringer) and animals (a tiger) in the trailer which don't appear in the film. even oja kodar couldn't explain why and how the tiger came into the trailer - but it works well. (maybe the tiger originally was part of a magic sequence for THE MAGIC SHOW - at least there is a photo of Oja and a tiger in the cahiers du cinema welles special issue.) it's also interesting to see how welles works with projections and screens in the studio - as he did in FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH. for me it's the last completed masterworks of welles, and it's a pity that it's not included in the japanese F FOR FAKE dvd.

by **jaime marzol** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:58 pm

i guess now i have to find my long trailer and re-evaluate it. contact with intellegent people has changed my opinion in the past. going to give it another shot. maybe i'm missing something. it's not the first time, won't be the last.

and that review at the top of this thread by Dan Jardine, stack him in the pissy critic section. he sounds most unfair. he probably gave the basket ball playing dog movie a better review.

by **Jaime N. Christley** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:14 pm

and that review at the top of this thread by Dan Jardine, stack him in the pissy critic section. he sounds most unfair. he probably gave the basket ball playing dog movie a better review.

I've known Jardine for a few years, and he's actually an incredibly nice guy, and the exact opposite of "prissy." Very much the sort of person that everyone likes - funny, down to earth, unshakably level-headed and smart. Talks down to no one. Perhaps read a few more of his reviews before making a judgment.

by **Store Hadji** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:20 pm

At the end of Fountain of Youth, Welles announces the next episode would be The Lady or the Tiger, or something like that. It just took him a long time to get back to it.

by **jaime marzol** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:47 am

..............................

when we come to these boards to post, we are posting on the person's WORK. i don't feel that we should have to concern ourselves with things in the person's PERSONAL life.

it's his WORK that we are posting on. the way he casts his personality on to paper.

if i were to crit jaime c. for writing a lousy welles article, and one of our members posted that i should no feel like that because jaime c. is a great guy, he donates to children's charities, he donates to blind indian charities, and he always helps old ladies to cross the street, that does not mean a hill of beans when i express my opinion about jaime c.'s WORK.

i was posting my opinion on what i though were nit-picky, pissy comments made by Jardine, and did not think that i needed to research his personal life before making up my mind about the comments i read.

store hadji is back, after 6 months lost at sea.

by **mteal** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:56 am

I'm intriqued by Jardine's comment that the F For Fake trailer was too "clever by half". You rarely hear that expression in America, but Roddy MacDowell - who was in Macbeth - also reportedly used it in describing Orson. Maybe it's a British phrase or something. I suppose it means that someone is only about half as clever as they think they are.

by **Jaime N. Christley** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 10:17 am

when we come to these boards to post, we are posting on the person's WORK. i don't feel that we should have to concern ourselves with things in the person's PERSONAL life.

it's his WORK that we are posting on. the way he casts his personality on to paper.

if i were to crit jaime c. for writing a lousy welles article, and one of our members posted that i should no feel like that because jaime c. is a great guy, he donates to children's charities, he donates to blind indian charities, and he always helps old ladies to cross the street, that does not mean a hill of beans when i express my opinion about jaime c.'s WORK.

i was posting my opinion on what i though were nit-picky, pissy comments made by Jardine, and did not think that i needed to research his personal life before making up my mind about the comments i read.

Hey JM, given that you're so proud of your professionalism on the board, here, the defensive, indignant tone I read in your reply - and may I suggest that my post regarding Mr. Jardine is unquestionably polite and non-threatening - doesn't really serve the message. I don't know who you speak for when you use the royal "we" (or perhaps you suffer from a multiple personality disorder?), but the Jaime Marzol I've observed is generally given to making nasty, cutting remarks that aren't defensible under the code of "let's restrict our remarks to a person's work." So save that sermon for another time, kay?

In attempt to bring this back to the topic, I actually agree with Jardine's comments - the trailer is an "interesting" work, but if I wasn't already a Welles fan, I wouldn't want to see F for Fake after watching it. Then again, I could say that about quite a few trailers for '70s films - a great decade for cinema but not the golden age of trailer-making.

by **Obssessed_with_Orson** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 1:07 pm

jaime c., in your own comment:

Perhaps read a few more of his reviews before making a judgment.

perhaps read a few more of jaime m.'s posts before making a judgment on him.

DAMMIT! THIS IS AN OPINION BOARD ON WHAT WE ALL THINK ON CERTAIN SUBJECTS! AND YOU SEEM TO HAVE MADE IT MORE AN OPINION BOARD ON OTHERS OPINIONS AND THE SUBJECTS AS WELL!

cut the crap!

bye now!

by **Jeff Wilson** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 2:13 pm

Jaime M made a snap judgment about a guy based on a quote from one of his reviews. It's hardly a basis for deciding what kind of a guy he is or his stance on Welles. And I think Jaime C has read more of Jaime M's posts that Jaime has read of Jardine or whomever the critic was. Let's cease this garbage now and get back to the topic at hand, or I'll lock the thread.

by **jaime marzol** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:51 pm

ok, lets pass the peace pipe.

by **Obssessed_with_Orson** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 7:10 pm

no thanks, i don't smoke. you guys can enjoy the moment.

bye now!

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