New TOUCH OF EVIL DVD set?

Discuss Welles' classic Hollywood thrillers.

Postby kipling71 » Mon May 05, 2008 1:38 pm

Jeff Wilson wrote:...I don't think we'll get either the Reconstructing Evil documentary or the Heston-Leigh commentary....

Awww, man! I didn't even know those were missing! :(

The lady in question is in good health, I suppose? No hope of a sudden tragic fatal illness, is there? 'cuz that would be bad.
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Postby jbrooks » Mon May 05, 2008 3:32 pm

While I strongly object to Beatrice's efforts in relation to her father's works, I don't think we should wish any ill upon her. We should wish only that she has a change of heart. She's Welles' daughter, and she deserves to have a long and happy life. :D
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Postby Tony » Mon May 05, 2008 5:37 pm

Jeff: with those words "whatever bug she had up her rear about those features then" I think we've definitely lost Bea as a Wellesnet member. :cry:

Purplelines: such as? :o


Jbrooks: hmmm. let me try and understand your logic: does Welles's daughter deserve a 'long and happy life' because she is his daughter?
:?
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Postby ToddBaesen » Mon May 05, 2008 6:10 pm

Tony:

Did we ever have "she who must not be named" as a member?

If we did, I would have imagined she would have stopped looking in here a long time before anybody mentioned a bug up her posterior....
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Postby Tony » Mon May 05, 2008 6:34 pm

Todd: Wasn't she posting as Jaime Marzol?
:?
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Postby ToddBaesen » Mon May 05, 2008 11:44 pm

Tony:

No Jaime was actually Jaime, who to be fair had some interesting angles and ideas on Welles... but unfortunately, he was quite a troublemaker.

He did try to make a comeback as "Blunted by the Community" and during his time here he managed to drive several important contributors away from Wellesnet, including Rick Schmidlin!

Thankfully, the moderator had the good sense to ban him from these pages once and for all!
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Postby Jeff Wilson » Tue May 06, 2008 12:04 am

Getting back to the topic at hand, I doubt Beatrice Welles spends much time in keeping up with what is said about her father, as I don't think it interests her, as opposed to Christopher Welles, who does care about it very much. My impression is that Beatrice pays some lip service to "honoring his legacy" or what have you, but her overriding interest has always been financial. Pay her enough money and I imagine she'd let any project come out. If I recall correctly now, Heston had some harsh words for her on the commentary which may have been the reason it was pulled, but presumably they could just cut that stuff out now. If this is indeed coming out in the summer, we'll be hearing about what's on it pretty soon.
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Postby Store Hadji » Tue May 06, 2008 11:56 am

Jaime coined the term "store Hadji," so his legacy lives on.

Whoever has that commentary should post it online somewhere. Apart from the pay-download comedy commentaries by Mike Nelson, there are some freebies as well. So long as the TOE soundtrack is blanked out, there's no copyright issue. If Heston did libel or slander Beatrice, would she sue his estate?

Welles wrote after the premiere of TOE that the title was silly and he'd never heard it before (letter to New Statesman: http://www.wellesnet.com/touch_memo2.htm) What in Hades was the title on the script he wrote?
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Postby Glenn Anders » Tue May 06, 2008 12:32 pm

Whit Masterson's novel, on which TOUCH OF EVIL was based, is entitled Badge of Evil. I rather think that TOUCH OF EVIL provides an improvement, but Welles' touch of genius, perhaps, makes the difference.

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Postby Store Hadji » Tue May 06, 2008 2:13 pm

Okay, so his screenplay was titled Badge of Evil.

I think Welles said only one of his movies had a title he supplied. Which was it?

Hearts of Age - that's not a film, it was a little joke one Sunday afternoon

Citizen Kane - named by George Schafer

The Magnificent Ambersons - Tarkington

Journey into Fear - Ambler

It's All True - who named that?

Jane Eyre - Bronte

The Stranger - Veiller?

The Lady from Shanghai - Welles? I forget what he based his adaption on. I'm a Noob. It wasn't "The Man I Loved"

Macbeth - duh

Othello - same duh

Mr Arkadin - that's a Welles title. Or was his Masquerade? Dolivet liked Confidential Report, or was that another Welles title?

Touch of Evil - Mr Universal Exec

The Trial - Kafka

Falstaff (Chimes at Midnight) - not Shakespeare titles, but from Shakespeare

The Immortal Story - Blixen

Orson's Bag - that's not a film

F for Fake - Oja?

The Other Side of the Wind - Oja

Filming Othello - that's not a film

The Dreamers - Blixen?



So the candidates for Titles Provided By Welles are It's All True, The Lady from Shanghai, Mr Arkadin and F for Fake
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Postby ToddBaesen » Wed May 07, 2008 4:00 am

By Orson Welles own admission, he was not good at titles. He told as much to Peter B. in THIS IS OW, when he said he wished Tennessee Williams could have written the titles for some of his films.

I hardily agree with Welles, since whether the plays that Williams's wrote were good or bad, they always seemed to have a great title. For example, here are a few titles from some of Williams less known later plays:

SOMETHING CLOUDY, SOMETHING CLEAR

IN MASKS OUTRAGEOUS AND AUSTERE

THE FROSTED CLASS COFFIN

A HOUSE NOT MEANT TO STAND


In any case, looking at the list of Welles film titles Store has provided, it's interesting to note that nearly every Welles film had an alternate title along with an alternate cut.

So for CITIZEN KANE, RKO initially announced it as:

JOHN CITIZEN, U.S.A. and later as AMERICAN


Then, after the next few Welles films which were all from novels, that kept their original titles, we get:

THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI

(Or even earlier, BLACK IRISH)

This is an adaptation of IF I DIE BEFORE I WAKE, from a novel by Sherwood King. Who changed the title of the novel to THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI is something no one had yet determined, to my knowledge.

OTHELLO also had an alternate title, as well as the different alternate versions:

THE TRAGEDY OF OTHELLO: THE MOOR OF VENICE

MR. ARKADIN, of course has the alternate title of CONFIDENTIAL REPORT.

TOUCH OF EVIL, is a title Welles said he disliked, and the title of the script that he first read by Paul Monash, and the book it was adapted from was called BADGE OF EVIL.

The title FALSTAFF is another area of mystery. While most people seem to think Welles preferred the title CHIMES AT MIDNIGHT, all the evidence from film posters in both Europe and America seem to point towards FALSTAFF as being the title that was most widely used for the film.

F FOR FAKE - Here's the clearest example of a film without a title. Welles apparently couldn't decide on what to call the film, and it was actually reviewed as "Question Mark" in Variety in 1973. It wasn't until it's American release in 1976 that Oja Kodar came up with the final title of F FOR FAKE, which was long after the fact, since the title is never actually seen in the film!

FILMING OTHELLO - although this is the title Welles used on the film, many people writing about the film, notably David Thomson, called it "THE MAKING OF OTHELLO"
Last edited by ToddBaesen on Thu May 08, 2008 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jeff Wilson » Wed May 07, 2008 9:26 am

LADY FROM SHANGHAI also went through at least two name changes, first being called BLACK IRISH, and then TAKE THIS WOMAN.
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Postby Roger Ryan » Wed May 07, 2008 4:54 pm

Jeff Wilson wrote:LADY FROM SHANGHAI also went through at least two name changes, first being called BLACK IRISH, and then TAKE THIS WOMAN.


I'm really glad the latter wasn't used; it sounds like a Henny Youngman joke!
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Postby Glenn Anders » Wed May 07, 2008 5:08 pm

True.

And the first script for CITIZEN KANE was simply entitled, American.

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Postby Tony » Thu May 08, 2008 9:44 pm

I guess "American" (I think it was Herman Mankeweisz's title)was rejected because it would be seen as an attack on American values in general, whereas "Citizen Kane" was just a character study of one man.

Or was it?
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