Recently, I have had the fun of revisiting The Stranger, for free, via a video-on-demand site. It has given me an opportunity to have a closer look at at this often-dismissed offering, an exercise that is leading me to find a whole host of merits in this work. Even when producing a more mainstream film, Welles' adept hand at screenwriting (in particular), framing, pacing, juxtaposing, and acting is a delight to behold, IMHO.
Since this little film generally gets very little serious attention, maybe this is a perfect place to buck that trend and share - for good and for ill - some of that famous Wellesnet-worthy comment and analysis that makes this site such a treat overall... any takers?
The Stranger - An underrated gem?
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by Jeff Wilson » Sun Mar 17, 2002 2:29 am
The Stranger isn't a great film, but it certainly could have been a better film than it was. The material cut from the beginning, focusing on Meineke's escape sounds fascinating and would have boosted the early going. Edward G. Robinson was too obvious a choice for Wilson, and had Welles been allowed to cast Agnes Moorehead, I think it would made things much more interesting, given Wilson's obsession over finding Kindler. A different tone, a different feel than the hard-boiled Robinson.
And what about Kindler teaching the good young men at the school? I would have loved to see him subtly working in Nazi philosophies into his teaching, or something in that line. We see that the students seem to like him, so he was obviously doing something right. Welles' performance is one of the weaknesses of the film, as he often hams things up a little too much. Watching the film, you wonder how everyone could miss this guy as an obvious nut. And his lack of any German accent is a bit much.
And what about Kindler teaching the good young men at the school? I would have loved to see him subtly working in Nazi philosophies into his teaching, or something in that line. We see that the students seem to like him, so he was obviously doing something right. Welles' performance is one of the weaknesses of the film, as he often hams things up a little too much. Watching the film, you wonder how everyone could miss this guy as an obvious nut. And his lack of any German accent is a bit much.
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by sergio » Tue Mar 19, 2002 6:58 am
JEFF, I THINK YOU PROTEST TOO MUCH (BUT VERY WELL)
I agree that the cut material (as described by Bret Wood and James Naremore) sounds better than much that is in the film as it stands (especially the expressionistic pre-credit sequence that would have alluded to material that would happen later, and all the South American footage). And there is much in it that is banal, obvious and too much in the debt of SHADOW OF A DOUBT; but I do also think that there is much of merit in it - especially the 4 minute long take in which Konstantin Shayne gets killed as well as all those wonderful vertical crane shots which, like much else in the film, pre-figure Welles' later films (especially TOE).
Loretta Young is also surprisingly good, and all the scenes with Billy House and wonderfully done too.
What it finally is though is a very conservative film by Welles' standards - there's no escaping that, and therefore the excision of so much less obvious material from the film is in that sense truly disappointing.
There is a new Region 2 DVD of it coming out (on a double bill with Edward G Robinson's SCARLET STREET) which apparently has a commenatry - I hope it's not the same one from the CITIZEN WELLS disc...
I agree that the cut material (as described by Bret Wood and James Naremore) sounds better than much that is in the film as it stands (especially the expressionistic pre-credit sequence that would have alluded to material that would happen later, and all the South American footage). And there is much in it that is banal, obvious and too much in the debt of SHADOW OF A DOUBT; but I do also think that there is much of merit in it - especially the 4 minute long take in which Konstantin Shayne gets killed as well as all those wonderful vertical crane shots which, like much else in the film, pre-figure Welles' later films (especially TOE).
Loretta Young is also surprisingly good, and all the scenes with Billy House and wonderfully done too.
What it finally is though is a very conservative film by Welles' standards - there's no escaping that, and therefore the excision of so much less obvious material from the film is in that sense truly disappointing.
There is a new Region 2 DVD of it coming out (on a double bill with Edward G Robinson's SCARLET STREET) which apparently has a commenatry - I hope it's not the same one from the CITIZEN WELLS disc...
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by R Kadin » Tue Mar 19, 2002 8:53 am
Now you've got it!
If "The Stranger" were the work of almost any other director, it would have received better critical attention than it has, in my opinion. While that might be understandable given the immense potential we know Welles to have harboured, it is also unfortunate, given the many merits the film does offer.
There is inevitable interest in the unfinished and the inaccessible and there is ample discussion on the now generally-accepted triumphs that studded OW's remarkable career; nevertheless, serious examinations of this film are few and far between. Revisiting "The Stranger" after a space of many years has convinced me that it deserves better shrift than that.
The film's noirish look, the thoughtfully crafted plot points and behavioural details, the treatment of the town as a character in its own right, the literate touches spread throughout, the casting against type (Jeff, I'm not so sure that Edward G. Robinson at that time in his career was quite the obvious choice for Wilson you suggest), the delightfully clear and well-used soundtrack - all done with less than the time or budget alotted... so many good things and still so little appreciation.
And let's not forget that, when he made it, Welles had little firm belief that it would truly be one of the last times in his life that he'd be allowed to play with a full-fledged Hollywood studio, "the best train set a boy could have."
I admit it's fun to be sure to scour the planet in search of purer Welles than this (my Japanese "F fo Fake DVD" is due to arrive today!), but it would be a downright shame to do only that to the exclusion of enjoying the Welles that is, in its sheer accessibility, too easily overlooked. This thread is dedicated to addressing that trend to some extent and contributions like the above are much appreciated - and more are invited!
If "The Stranger" were the work of almost any other director, it would have received better critical attention than it has, in my opinion. While that might be understandable given the immense potential we know Welles to have harboured, it is also unfortunate, given the many merits the film does offer.
There is inevitable interest in the unfinished and the inaccessible and there is ample discussion on the now generally-accepted triumphs that studded OW's remarkable career; nevertheless, serious examinations of this film are few and far between. Revisiting "The Stranger" after a space of many years has convinced me that it deserves better shrift than that.
The film's noirish look, the thoughtfully crafted plot points and behavioural details, the treatment of the town as a character in its own right, the literate touches spread throughout, the casting against type (Jeff, I'm not so sure that Edward G. Robinson at that time in his career was quite the obvious choice for Wilson you suggest), the delightfully clear and well-used soundtrack - all done with less than the time or budget alotted... so many good things and still so little appreciation.
And let's not forget that, when he made it, Welles had little firm belief that it would truly be one of the last times in his life that he'd be allowed to play with a full-fledged Hollywood studio, "the best train set a boy could have."
I admit it's fun to be sure to scour the planet in search of purer Welles than this (my Japanese "F fo Fake DVD" is due to arrive today!), but it would be a downright shame to do only that to the exclusion of enjoying the Welles that is, in its sheer accessibility, too easily overlooked. This thread is dedicated to addressing that trend to some extent and contributions like the above are much appreciated - and more are invited!
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by Welles Fan » Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:56 pm
I've never found The Stranger to be very compelling. I've always been interested in the ideology of "former Nazis"-whether they regret their past deeds, or are in denial, or continue to feel that they were right and that the world simply rejected their ideas. I feel The Stranger does not deal with any of this (save for that moment when Kindler says "Marx wasn't a German, Marx was a jew".) I agree that some of the ideology could've been worked into his classes; or Kindler could have been a man wracked with guilt over his crimes.
I always wondered why Loretta Young married a man she scarcely knew.
I always wondered why Loretta Young married a man she scarcely knew.
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by jaime marzol » Tue Mar 19, 2002 7:04 pm
i love the stranger as is, without ever thinking, 'if only he had......' i don't think welles ever pulled any punches in his films, and the stranger is no different.
lets not forget tight-wad sam speigle was producing.
welles' was hanging on by the skin of his teeth. i think he gave the film everything he could without being fired. had he been fired from the stranger, after 5 years on unemployment because of the south american fiasco, that would have nailed his coffin shut.
and we must never forget that the conservative nature of the stranger can be directly credited for us today having lady from shanghai.
whatever penny-pincher speigle didn't spend on the strager, john huston saw to it that it left sam's pocket at an alarming rate during the filming of the african queen.
i see sergio is looking at the right books, naremore's, and bret woods' are superb, they don't come any better. the bret wood is tremendous reference for articles, and for missing scenes.
naremore did a compact, but thourough job on reporting the missing scenes in the stranger, and lady from shanghai.
sergio:
the stranger and scarlett street!!!! i got my money in hand ready to fork over. can you keep us posted when this gem is released?
lets not forget tight-wad sam speigle was producing.
welles' was hanging on by the skin of his teeth. i think he gave the film everything he could without being fired. had he been fired from the stranger, after 5 years on unemployment because of the south american fiasco, that would have nailed his coffin shut.
and we must never forget that the conservative nature of the stranger can be directly credited for us today having lady from shanghai.
whatever penny-pincher speigle didn't spend on the strager, john huston saw to it that it left sam's pocket at an alarming rate during the filming of the african queen.
i see sergio is looking at the right books, naremore's, and bret woods' are superb, they don't come any better. the bret wood is tremendous reference for articles, and for missing scenes.
naremore did a compact, but thourough job on reporting the missing scenes in the stranger, and lady from shanghai.
sergio:
the stranger and scarlett street!!!! i got my money in hand ready to fork over. can you keep us posted when this gem is released?
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jaime marzol - Wellesnet Legend
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by jaime marzol » Tue Mar 19, 2002 7:04 pm
double post by accident.
actually, i just like seeing my avatar, over, and over, and over.
actually, i just like seeing my avatar, over, and over, and over.
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by R Kadin » Tue Mar 19, 2002 9:07 pm
Kindler was "just following orders" in dialogue torn form the concurrent War Crimes Trials and predating "Judgment at Nuremberg" by fully 15 years. And is it any surprise that, in the only class we get to hear him address, the lesson being taught is on Teutonic history?
At the time of "The Stranger's" release, it's fair to say there was hardly an interest in understanding the Nazis in subtle psychological terms. And yet, for its time and its mainstream aspirations, the film comes closer to touching on your preferred themes, Welles Fan, than it might otherwise have done. For example, look at Meineke's surprising revelation of his conversion to fundamentalist Christianity: it's absolutely plausible, pathetic, and virtually unheard of in connection with Nazi characters of the time.
And, by lodging the Third Reich's evil squarely in the centre of an unassuming New England town, the story warns its war-weary viewers that the combat might be over, but the fight is far from finished. How many other films of the era had the audacity to speculate that the Allies' worst nightmares might be hiding in plain sight - not in Argentina, but in America itself?
How many other films would think so casually to use an image of snow as both concealer and revealer in the same, poetic breath? With the likes of Welles and an uncredited John Huston adding their touches to it, it's not entirely a wonder, that the film was nominated for a Best Original Story Oscar.
At the risk of beating this horse to death, so many of the nuances and themes at work in this film only slip easily past today's audiences - not because they are banal - but because they have come to be taken up in later years by so many other films. To appreciate "The Stranger" it is far better to place it in the context of the other films of 1946 than it is to insist on judging it solely in relation to Welles' life's work.
Agreed, our man's performance is not the movie's strongest attribute; but his masterful handling of the long scene leading up to Meineke's murder is a delicious mix of menace, distraction, calculation, and even, briefly, regret. His premeditated and deceptive performance for Wilson later at the dinner table is an orgy of barely-concealed self-satisfaction and inner superiority. He has his moments, I say; and these are worth the price of admission. I do admit to a great disappointment, however, that a scant two years after "Double Indemnity", Edward G. Robinson's performance is rarely what it could have been - and I have nowhere to look for a share of the blame than to director Welles himself. Perhaps he never got beyond what Agnes Moorehead could have done in Robinson's stead. Much further along a similar vein, young Richard Long's unready and ultra-low-energy turn really had no business making onto the screen. Sedentary shopkeeper Billy House is a nice antidote to that, however, and Loretta Young rises skillfully and luminously to her occasions. A class act, that lady.
To say the look of the film is beguiling is hardly to say enough. Given the movie's modest aspirations, the noirish touches have little need to be there and yet there they are: the bright daylight that's still so cold and the clock shaft's interior rising expressionistically upwards to the heavens - or is it downwards into the concentric circles of Dante's Hell? The crane shots of the town, the glimpses of this perfect town of Harper framed through the imperfect glass of its main store's window, the Kane-like screening room wherein the Rankin/Kindler mystery, like the film in Wilson's portable projector, is about to come undone, and the sinister coagulating of the good people of Harper at the foot of the tower in response to the clock's reawakened chimes - the film certainly has its share of effective images.
I have already touched on the soundtrack, so no need to dwell on it except, perhaps, to refer to the scene of Rankin's abrupt heard-but-not-seen departure from Potter's store as he realizes his plan's demise. The timing is immaculate.
In the end, "The Stranger" might simply be Welles doing it by the book; but, by God, in his hands and on a variety of levels it is still one decidedly rewarding little book. IMHO, of course.
At the time of "The Stranger's" release, it's fair to say there was hardly an interest in understanding the Nazis in subtle psychological terms. And yet, for its time and its mainstream aspirations, the film comes closer to touching on your preferred themes, Welles Fan, than it might otherwise have done. For example, look at Meineke's surprising revelation of his conversion to fundamentalist Christianity: it's absolutely plausible, pathetic, and virtually unheard of in connection with Nazi characters of the time.
And, by lodging the Third Reich's evil squarely in the centre of an unassuming New England town, the story warns its war-weary viewers that the combat might be over, but the fight is far from finished. How many other films of the era had the audacity to speculate that the Allies' worst nightmares might be hiding in plain sight - not in Argentina, but in America itself?
How many other films would think so casually to use an image of snow as both concealer and revealer in the same, poetic breath? With the likes of Welles and an uncredited John Huston adding their touches to it, it's not entirely a wonder, that the film was nominated for a Best Original Story Oscar.
At the risk of beating this horse to death, so many of the nuances and themes at work in this film only slip easily past today's audiences - not because they are banal - but because they have come to be taken up in later years by so many other films. To appreciate "The Stranger" it is far better to place it in the context of the other films of 1946 than it is to insist on judging it solely in relation to Welles' life's work.
Agreed, our man's performance is not the movie's strongest attribute; but his masterful handling of the long scene leading up to Meineke's murder is a delicious mix of menace, distraction, calculation, and even, briefly, regret. His premeditated and deceptive performance for Wilson later at the dinner table is an orgy of barely-concealed self-satisfaction and inner superiority. He has his moments, I say; and these are worth the price of admission. I do admit to a great disappointment, however, that a scant two years after "Double Indemnity", Edward G. Robinson's performance is rarely what it could have been - and I have nowhere to look for a share of the blame than to director Welles himself. Perhaps he never got beyond what Agnes Moorehead could have done in Robinson's stead. Much further along a similar vein, young Richard Long's unready and ultra-low-energy turn really had no business making onto the screen. Sedentary shopkeeper Billy House is a nice antidote to that, however, and Loretta Young rises skillfully and luminously to her occasions. A class act, that lady.
To say the look of the film is beguiling is hardly to say enough. Given the movie's modest aspirations, the noirish touches have little need to be there and yet there they are: the bright daylight that's still so cold and the clock shaft's interior rising expressionistically upwards to the heavens - or is it downwards into the concentric circles of Dante's Hell? The crane shots of the town, the glimpses of this perfect town of Harper framed through the imperfect glass of its main store's window, the Kane-like screening room wherein the Rankin/Kindler mystery, like the film in Wilson's portable projector, is about to come undone, and the sinister coagulating of the good people of Harper at the foot of the tower in response to the clock's reawakened chimes - the film certainly has its share of effective images.
I have already touched on the soundtrack, so no need to dwell on it except, perhaps, to refer to the scene of Rankin's abrupt heard-but-not-seen departure from Potter's store as he realizes his plan's demise. The timing is immaculate.
In the end, "The Stranger" might simply be Welles doing it by the book; but, by God, in his hands and on a variety of levels it is still one decidedly rewarding little book. IMHO, of course.
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by jaime marzol » Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:22 pm
on the stranger i stand with r.kadin. it has it's merits.
but. as a hard core welles fan, which i consider myself to be, i care very little about logic, narative, beleivable plots, well rounded characters, good music track, sound synching; who cares? if i want that i go to hitch, or hawks, or ford. that's what they do.
i tune in to welles for cinematic brilliance. brilliant chapters. cliche free films that wildly surpass better funded, better written, better executed films from lesser talents. for whatever short commings it has, who can say that on an artistic level the stranger is a failure?
this is from andew sarris' controversial, but right-on-the-money book, The American Cinema (1962)
The Most Significant Films From 1946:
hitch - notorius
hawks - big sleep
ford - my darling clementine
renoir - diary of a chamber maid
capra - it's wonderful life
welles - the stranger
not bad for a crappy film.
but. as a hard core welles fan, which i consider myself to be, i care very little about logic, narative, beleivable plots, well rounded characters, good music track, sound synching; who cares? if i want that i go to hitch, or hawks, or ford. that's what they do.
i tune in to welles for cinematic brilliance. brilliant chapters. cliche free films that wildly surpass better funded, better written, better executed films from lesser talents. for whatever short commings it has, who can say that on an artistic level the stranger is a failure?
this is from andew sarris' controversial, but right-on-the-money book, The American Cinema (1962)
The Most Significant Films From 1946:
hitch - notorius
hawks - big sleep
ford - my darling clementine
renoir - diary of a chamber maid
capra - it's wonderful life
welles - the stranger
not bad for a crappy film.
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by Welles Fan » Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:26 pm
Well, R Kadin has convinced me to watch The Stranger again. I taped a year or so off TCM, and will give it a look this weekend.
Funny thing-I have a little framed poster (an old magazine ad, actually) of The Stranger hanging in my TV room!
Funny thing-I have a little framed poster (an old magazine ad, actually) of The Stranger hanging in my TV room!
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by jaime marzol » Wed Mar 20, 2002 5:05 pm
from what i've read about the quality of the stranger dvds, and video tapes out there, welles fan will be watching the best quality copy available. i taped mine off tcm also, and it looks great.
the sarris list i posted was only the first entries in a list of 30 or 40 movies, listed in the order of importance.
the sarris list i posted was only the first entries in a list of 30 or 40 movies, listed in the order of importance.
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by jaime marzol » Wed Mar 20, 2002 5:07 pm
same goes for my tcm copy of the maltese falcon, it's better than the laser disc i own, and better than the dvd i rented.
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by R Kadin » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:40 pm
BTW, at least one VD copy of The Stranger out there comes with an add-on interview or documentary, "Orson Welles on Film". Has anyone seen this and, if so, is it worth going after?
Also - you can catch The Stranger and plenty of other vintage films online and on demand for free at http://www.movieflix.com
Also - you can catch The Stranger and plenty of other vintage films online and on demand for free at http://www.movieflix.com
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by jaime marzol » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:34 pm
i went to that site, joined, gave them my credit card #, excitedly i clicked on a film. i got that spinning logo, and an important voice said, "one day, every one will watch films like this." the film came on, it was the size of a quarter.
i had to go cancell my membership. i know it will take me 3 months of phone calls to get them to stop charging me.
r kadin:
probably a very good site if you have a fast connection. i'm on a 56k. too bad. it looked interesting.
i can't get a fast line. i don't want to do anything that ecourages web use.
>>>>>>
i had to go cancell my membership. i know it will take me 3 months of phone calls to get them to stop charging me.
r kadin:
probably a very good site if you have a fast connection. i'm on a 56k. too bad. it looked interesting.
i can't get a fast line. i don't want to do anything that ecourages web use.
>>>>>>
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jaime marzol - Wellesnet Legend
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