stupid question? - complete Ambersons vs. completed Wind

[maxrael]

You wake up in in fantasy land...

You have to make a choice....

You can either have a 'directors cut' of The Magnificent Ambersons or a finished 'directors cut' of The Other Side Of The Wind...

which would you choose? (and why)

[Obssessed_with_Orson]

in magnificent amberson's when other's saw it on tv, they got excited and wanted to watch it.
when orson saw it, so the articles say, tears came down his face. rather have not read about orson upset that badly.

in the other side of the wind, wasn't finished before his death, no articles about him getting upset like above. and yes, would be nice to see. finished by HIM.

i answered the "stupid question". and here's my "stupid answer". if you don't like it. EAT IT!

bye now!

[maxrael]

Fair enough!! as i said it was a silly question, but i was interested in people's responses!

i voted for Wind, because much as i'd really love to see a Welles-completed Ambersons... the opportunity to see a completely new Welles project was too much for me!!
...the clips i've seen on the AFI video look so cool, i'd love to see where Orson was going to take the medium next!

incidentaly imdb now list 'Moby Dick' as being directed by Welles in 1999!!!! run time 22mins...
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0331570

i assume it's the 'talking head' version... anyone know if anyone's planning a release of it?..

atb,
max!

[Jeff Wilson]

I voted for Ambersons, as it has the advantage of being so tantalizing in its butchered form. The foundation of a great picture is there, and to see the full vision of Welles and his crew would be a hair more preferable than Wind, though it's a tough choice, picking between unfinished/butchered projects. At least the latter might be shown to us someday in something like its intended form.

[jaime marzol]

i looked at this question 4 times, can come up with a dozen reasons for each, so i didn't vote.

[Obssessed_with_Orson]

cool answer jaime.

bye now!

[Welles Fan]

Ambersons all the way for me. In its truncated form, it often makes "10 Best" lists. In its uncut form, I would not be surprised to see it edge out "Kane" for the top spot.

I agree with Jeff that it would be great to see an uncut Welles film made under optimum conditions. No matter how much I love Othello, for instance, there is no question that the film is, as Jack Jorgens describes it in Focus on Orson Welles, a "flawed masterpiece". The problems in adding a soundtrack, matching shots from different years and continents, the need to have the actor who is speaking to turn away from the camera, etc led Othello, great as it is, to be flawed. Likewise, Chimes at Midnight, masterpiece that I feel it is, suffers from rather indistinct muddy sound (something that could perhaps be "fixed" by engineers if any money could be spent to restore it). I think TOSOTW would have been another of the more "ragged" Welles productions along the lines of Othello, with a changing cast, story, etc. Also, being a color film, it would likely be very discolored today, as many films from that era are, and since it would have been an OW film, you can be sure tha not a finger would have been lifted to preserve the film.

TOSOTW would interest me in that it would be a "new" Welles project, but an Ambersons cut restored from its 89 or so minute form to it 130 minute plus form would be like a "new" film as well.

Natalie: Orson wept when seeing Ambersons because it had been butchered. The best way to dry Orson's tears, or at least turn them to tears of joy, would be to find the missing footage and restore Ambersons. I'd cry if I saw it uncut, too!

[Obssessed_with_Orson]

yeah, i know it, among others, was butchered. still would be nice to see HIS ending. and not read about him being so upset. but you're right. i guess anyone would be.

bye now!

[dmolson]

If we can dream...
I wrestled with myself and picked TOSOTW, only because the brief snippets I've seen were intensely captivating, wishing that I could live through a full viewing. It's an unknown quantity, but it holds unknown potential. With The Magnificient Ambersons, I've already embraced it even in its truncated form, as have critics the world over. To see Welles' full cut would be icing on a wonderful cake; The...Wind would be a foreign dish served to a starving man! Of course, there is a chance for disappointment in both instances but I'd gamble all here would gladly take either if given no choice.

[jaime marzol]

...............

i don't think welles cried because it was butchered, he said he cried because it's the past, and it's over. i feel misty like that when i see woodstock, or the last waltz.

[mteal]

Then again, one has to wonder whether any of his other films could have made him cry like that while watching it. What I don't understand is, given how much Welles wanted his original ending of Ambersons to be in the final cut, why someone in the Mercury didn't see fit to at least make some kind of copy of that. Pisses me off just thinking about it, so I try not to.

[maxrael]

and of course, the tragedy of Ambersons is compounded by Orson's failed attempt to get the original cast back together years later to reshoot the ending...

[Obssessed_with_Orson]

he said he cried because it's the past, and it's over.

true. he did say that.

and of course, the tragedy of Ambersons is compounded by Orson's failed attempt to get the original cast back together years later to reshoot the ending...

i thought the tragedy was because some moronic idiot, who's name i don't have clear in my mind at this moment, convinced him it was his patriotic duty to go shoot "It's All True"?

bye now!

[mteal]

I would have settled for him doing an essay film on Ambersons, like FILMING OTHELLO. It would have been fascinating to have just had him explain with detail and insight (and any surviving photos and other materials) what his original version was like. As you may already know, Jaime and I have been working on a sort-of restoration of Ambersons for about a year now, trying to combine photos, storyboards, computer imagery and voicevers to give some idea of what the missing scenes were like. It's a fascinating project and I'm proud of the effort we've put into it so far, but it's also demanding work that unfortunately, as Jaime has mentioned, we both have difficulty finding time for. And even if we do figure out how to finish the project, let's face it: alot of our work is merely guesswork. With an essay film, Welles could have done a much better and more accurate job of illuminating the essence of his lost masterpiece. Too bad he didn't.

[maxrael]

As you may already know, Jaime and I have been working on a sort-of restoration of Ambersons for about a year now, trying to combine photos, storyboards, computer imagery and voicevers to give some idea of what the missing scenes were like.

i've read about your and Jaime's reconstruction attempt with great interest... when it's eventually complete do you anticipate there might be some way to distribute copies amongst wellesnet readers?.. i for one would be more than happy to pay to cover costs or whatever for a copy...
Or we could use 'a tree' such as fans use for distributing CDRs of bootleg gigs etc.

atb,
max!