Welles on Criterion Laserdisc

[Jay]

I recently picked up Criterion's LD release of "The Magnificent Ambersons" because it was the only way to get the special features for the film (and the only decent-looking copy, until WB's recent bare-bones DVD release). In addition, I managed to snag the Criterion LD of "Othello" for $30 on eBay, which seemed like a reasonable price, considering the quality of the extras (commentary, the inclusion of "Filming Othello," etc.).

Are there any other Criterion LDs of Welles films that are not available on DVD that I should pick up?

[Roger Ryan]

Criterion released CITIZEN KANE as well on laserdisc (the company's first release, in fact), and even did a reissue with expanded bonus features including a 70-minute documentary on the film that is unavailable elsewhere. F FOR FAKE appeared on Criterion laserdisc as well, although that release has been supplanted by the DVD release a few years back.

One intriguing aspect I was recently made aware of is that Robert Carringer's LD AMBERSONS commentary contains some factual misinformation that I believe he would have corrected after doing more research on the film. At one point, he claims that the bedroom scene between George and Isabel contains shots of Tim Holt photographed by Stanley Cortez and directed by Welles and that these were intercut with new shots of Delores Costello. This is simply untrue as the entire scene was reshot by Robert Wise (Cortez was not involved either). In fact, the whole point of reshooting the scene was to "soften" the character of George, so it makes little sense to suggest that some of Tim Holt's footage was directed by Welles (note that the shot of George walking through the hall approaching the bedroom door was shot by Welles, but this is the only surviving shot of the original footage). I have no idea if there are any other similar lapses in the commentary track, but it's something to be aware of when listening.

[Jay]

Thanks for the info on the Citizen Kane LD. I knew it exists, but I didn't know about the difference between the various releases. From what I've been able to learn, there were apparently four different Criterion LD releases of Kane. Do you have a list of the special features that were on the 50th Anniversary reissue set? I've been scouring the internet but coming up dry, so any help would be much appreciated.

Also, do you think it's worth it to pick up a copy of the Kane LD for the special features that you can't get elsewhere?

[Roger Ryan]

Sorry - I'm was going off info I found on the internet as well . I don't actually own any of the KANE laserdiscs, but I feel certain that the Criterion extras would have to be better than what has appeared on the Warner Home Video releases. Whether it's worth a purchase, I don't know; perhaps someone else can comment.

[mteal]

Here's a little website for Welles films on video. It's needs to be updated one of these days, but it might have some of the info sought:

http://web.me.com/mteal1/Site_9/OW_Vide ... Videos.pdf

Yes, there were Four Criterion KANE LD releases:

1984-
CAV 2 disc set, with all the extras
CLV 1 disc set, with no extras

1991-
CAV 3 disc set with all the extras
CLV 1 disc set with no extras

BTW Jay, if I were you, I would make a DVDr copy of the Ambersons LD as soon as you can. My Ambersons LD, which I paid $80 for way back when, is now all but ruined with Laser Rot.

[Jay]

Thanks for the link to the PDF on Welles releases. It's got a lot of great information and clarifies the extras on the Kane LD. It's a toss-up for me as to whether or not I'll get it; there's already so much great extra stuff on the DVDs that I'm not sure it would add much to my understanding of the film.

I'm planning to transfer both TMA and Othello to DVD as soon as I can get my hands on a decent DVD recorder. My LDs of TMA are actually in great shape (and I got the special edition, with all the trimmings, for only $40!), so I'm not worried about laser rot for now, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

That link also reminded me that I want to pick up the LD of Journey into Fear, since that's still not on DVD.

[Glenn Anders]

Dear Jay: Let me add to Mike's information a commendation for the 1991 Criterion/Voyager Company CITIZEN KANE LD. The three disk album, a copy of which I've long possessed, is excellent, and though I have a soft spot for the 50th Anniversary VHS Box (with its draft of AMERICAN included), the 1991 LD album has several superior features. First, the film itself is in CAV, which means it is beautifully rendered, and you can go to chapters, stop action, or capture elements on five sides. The remainder of Side 5 is taken up with "The Making of CITIZEN KANE; A Visual Essay by Robert Carringer" (who did the prized analysis, too, of THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS). It covers the production from Welles' coming to Hollywood through the conception, execution, and reception of CITIZEN KANE, following on to its rediscovery in the 1950's, to the ratings of critics on its 50th Anniversary. [This side also contains an excellent copy of "Hearts of the Age."] Side 6 is entitled "The Legacy of CITIZEN KANE, An Interactive Documentary" and contains commentary and analysis with stills and video by the following figures:

Peter Bogdanovich, Roger Corman, Joe Dante, Brian De Palma, Linwood Dunne, Richard Edlund, Blake Edwards, John Frankenheimer, Costa Gavras, Gary Graver, Taylor Hackford, Henry Jaglom, Rick Jewel, Lawrence Kasdan, Laszlo Kovacs, John Landis, Barry Levinson, Gary Lucchesi, Frank Marshall, Paul Mazursky, Burt Reynolds, Martin Ritt, Joel Schumacher, Martin Scorsese, Ridley Scott, Susan Seidelman, Penelope Spheeris, Robert Townsend, Theo Van de Sande, Ruth Warrick, Haskell Wexler, Richard Wilson, Robert Wise, and Vilmos Zsigmond. These interviews were all recorded for this album in during the Fall of1990 in New York, Los Angeles, and Europe.

That's an impressive compendium, and the transfer of the film itself is a very satisfactory one. I prefer to watch it rather than the recent DVD's.

I've often heard of "Laserdisc rot," but in my three hundred album collection, going back 25 years, I've never seen evidence of it. Good, airy storage may be the answer. In any case, if you want the above features, Jay, be sure your purchase is in good condition.

Glenn Anders

[Jay]

Thanks, Glenn, for the additional information on the Kane LD. I think that as long as I can find a copy in good condition and a for a reasonable price, I'll go ahead and pick it up.

[mteal]

Jay, here's one more Criterion LD you should consider picking up if you find it:



It has no video, but six hours of Welles/Mercury radio programs from the late 30's to mid 40's, in very good sound. REBECCA, in particular, sounds like it could have been recorded last week.

Side 1:
Digital Track
1: Rebecca (Chapter 3, Time: 59:51)
Analog Track 1
1: Heart of Darkness (Chapter 1, 29:55)
2: The Apple Tree (Chapter 5, 30:01)
Analog Track 2
1: My Little Boy (Chapter 2, 27:12)
2: The Hitch Hiker (Chapter 4, 29:45)

Side 2
Digital Track
1: A Tale of Two Cities (Chapter 8, 59:45)
Analog Track 1
1: H.G. Wells Meets Orson Welles (Chapter 7, 7:28)
2: The Song of Solomon (Chapter 10, 4:19)
3: Noah Webster's Library/Dorothy Parker Poetry (Chapter 12, 3:59)
4: Hamlet (Chapter 13, 5:25)
5: Doris Miller Tribute (Chapter 15, 3:42)
6: The Shadow: "The White Legion" (Chapter 16, 28:13)
Analog Track 2
1: The Sun Rising/No Man Is An Island (Chapter 6, 7:00)
2: Ladies & Gentlemen, There's a Full Moon Tonight (Chapter 9, 2:01)
3: Wilbur Brown, Habitat Brooklyn (Chapter 11, 9:53)
4: Theatre of the Imagination: The Mercury Company Remembers (Chapter 14, 39:33)

[Glenn Anders]

Mike, Jay: In talking about The Theater of the Imagination we are really referring to the Voyager Company, which became gradually one of its own divisions, The Criterion Collection. But in the beginning, Voyager, which became Criterion, committed a lot of sound material to Laserdisc, such as The Theater of the Imagination." This extraordinary venture was begun by a firebrand named Bob Stein, who was inspired to form the Voyager Company (named after the space probe) by buying the electronic rights to CITIZEN KANE and KING KONG for ten thousand bucks. Here is a snippet of a longer essay on the history of the company, "The Teachings of Bob Stein" by Amy Virshup:

" In 1980, Bob Stein was a former student radical, political organizer, and confirmed Maoist who had completed a BA from Columbia, an MA from Harvard, and about a week's worth of work on a PhD. He also had a wife and a family. He and Aleen had married in 1978; she already had two children, and they'd eventually have two more together. Living in LA, Stein had reached a point where he "realized that fundamental change - as in revolution - was a long way off, and I couldn't wait that long." He worked as a waiter and went looking for his future in the public library. He found it in a handful of articles in magazines like New York and Publishers Weekly that touted the capabilities of a new technology involving optical videodiscs and the work of a little-known media lab at MIT. "I read until I got interested in something," says Stein. "And I got interested in this."

"Over the next few years, Stein went from one consulting gig to another - for Encyclopaedia Britannica, for Alan Kay's Atari Research Group, for Warner executive Stan Cornyn - preaching the gospel of the electronic future. Finally, in 1984, the Steins bought the electronic rights to two classic movies, Citizen Kane and King Kong, for $10,000 and went into business with a former Warner exec named Roger Smith. They called their new venture the Criterion Collection. Looking for more product, they approached New York-based Janus Films, run by Becker and Turrell. "Roger and Bob never came together, they always came separately," recalls Turrell, who until recently worked out of Voyager's satellite office in Irvington, New York, a half-hour's train ride from Manhattan. "Roger would show up in three-piece suits and take me to very expensive lunches. Bob would show up two weeks later in his pajama pants, we'd go out for pizza, and he'd say, 'You have a couple of bucks you could lend me?'" Not too surprisingly, the Stein-Smith partnership soon fell apart.

"But about three months later, Turrell got a call from Stein. "He said, 'Did you see what we did?' Roger had in fact sent me King Kong and I'd watched it. I said, 'King Kong. Movie. Seen it, been there, done that.' He said, 'You don't get it. Let me come up to the office and show you something.' He brought Citizen Kane, and he showed me the opening scene - of the window in the Hearst Castle - and he said, 'If you fast-forward through this, you'll see the window never changes location.' That's true. Seven different shots and the light just dissolves, and you enter through that light." With a laserdisc, you could move through the movie frame by frame, seeing not just what Welles had done, but how he'd done it. "Bob said, 'This is what it's about.' And it clicked." By the summer of 1985, with several hundred thousand dollars in capital, the Steins and the Janus team had founded Voyager, naming it after the space probe then headed for distant planets."

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/4.07/stein_pr.html

To think that all of the good works flowing from Criterion began with CITIZEN KANE and KING KONG! And that the deal was sealed by the new Laserdisc medium's ability to capture just how Orson Welles created the opening scene of his first masterpiece.

Glenn

[Jay]

Very, very cool information. (But Stein as a confirmed Maoist? Yikes.) Thank you so much for posting, Glenn. I love getting this kind of background information.

I opted to get the audio recordings from various online sources instead of springing for the LD of Theatre of the Imagination. The eBayers want an arm and a leg for it.

Also, get this--I get my Criterion Collection LD of Othello in the mail today, and when I open up the box to check it out, guess what I discover? This copy is still sealed. I couldn't believe it. I mean, I still opened it up because I wanted to check it out, and the discs are in perfect shape. Did I really just get a never-opened copy of this film for $30?

[Glenn Anders]

Pleased to be of service, Jay.

As for Bob Stein being a Maoist, one can never tell the turns in a person's life. A pattern is probably what is significant. As the essay points out, Stein remained dictatorial, contradictory, and an idealist. [It's when a person suddenly flips as various opportunities appear that makes me suspicious.] After all, for hidebound modern McCarthyites in the Republican Party, think what they might have done if it had become known earlier that Steve Job's real father was a Syrian and now manages a gambling casino in Reno, Nevada!

You are right that the material on The Theater of the Mind can currently be found through other, perhaps better sources, in terms of quality.

And congratulations on getting the Criterion laserdisc of THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS in mint condition for $30, about what you would have paid for it, retail, twenty years ago. {I envy you; that's an issue which I never was able to purchase.] Just a word of caution. If there is anything to this "laserdisc rot" business, I would suggest that you remove the plastic wrap from your copy. The seal tends to shrink, and it is said that air is good for the disc, once it has been unsealed.

By all means, tell us what you think of the laserdisc THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS -- and all those legendary goodies!

Glenn

[tadao]

Not from Criterion, but I'd also suggest Republic's (early) 45th Anniversay edition of Macbeth from 1992 [LV 25551], which comes with a handsome gatefold sleeve and an audio commentary by Bruce Eder that if I recall correctly is undocumented on the sleeve, unless it's mentioned inside the gatefold. I'm a sucker for audio commentaries, and I remember this one being fairly informative, although at this late juncture I'd be hard pressed to recall any specifics. There are copies on eBay at the moment for $10-$15 USD; whether it's worth it to you probably depends on whether or not you've forked out for the French or German DVDs, or are anticipating an eventual US release on DVD or Blu-ray.

Theatre of the Imagination is a nice set, and an unusal artefact as an audio only LD, but it seems a really odd decision to have made the set for LD (as well as casssette and CD-ROM) when it would surely have looked like a better prospect as a CD boxset. Did LD players with digital audio capability really have more market penetration where it counted (I guess libraries and enthusiasts) than CD players in 1988? Wouldn't almost any LD player with digital audio play CDs anyway? And would a 2 sided LD have been more economical to press than a 6 CD set, with a better profit margin for the list price, $40 USD for the LD? The CD-ROM has an added feature of the transcript for The Mercury Remembers, presented as a low resolution QuickTime video to go along with the audio recording, not sure why they didn't put this on the LD either, instead of the entirely blank screen that accompanies the audio, apart from informational slates at the (start and?) end of the sides?

As a marginally interesting story, a few years ago I came across a sealed copy of the Kane CAV set on eBay, acquired, allegedly, from Ruth Warrick's estate sale, but without any form of provenance . The disc was presumably given to Ms Warrick as a courtesy when it was issued, but probably sat unopened as she'd be unliklely to have an LD player. The asking price was reasonable ($40 I think, either as a buy-it-now or start price), but I was too cash-poor at the time to go for it, considering the added cost to ship to the UK, and that I already had the US and UK special edition DVDs. Wish I'd foregone dinners for the month and bought it, if only for the sake of the anecdote; but I have the story anyway, as 'the one that got away', even without getting the discs. Since then I've got myself a copy of the set (as yet unviewed by me), but it's neither marked 'Rosebud' nor affected by singe marks where it's been rescued from a furnace... (they should have done this to Ms Warrick's copy, it would have sold like a shot!)

One query for those with the Ambersons CAV set - how is the radio material on the final side intended to be viewed? I have two pre-owned (Pioneer) LD players, acquired after the hayday of the LD era, sharing one remote control from eBay. Both players auto-pause at the slates between the video clips on the main audio track, which interrupts the flow of the audio on the secondary track. Were viewers supposed to grin-and-bear the interruptions, or were players designed to be able to bypass the auto-pause? I've heard of players that do offer this capability, but it wasn't standard, was it?

[Jay]

I just bought the only copy of the Macbeth LD on ebay ($15 for a copy that was still sealed, apparently), as I'm also a sucker for audio commentaries and had no clue that this existed until now. Thanks so much for the information.

[A Sled in Flames]

One query for those with the Ambersons CAV set - how is the radio material on the final side intended to be viewed? I have two pre-owned (Pioneer) LD players, acquired after the hayday of the LD era, sharing one remote control from eBay. Both players auto-pause at the slates between the video clips on the main audio track, which interrupts the flow of the audio on the secondary track. Were viewers supposed to grin-and-bear the interruptions, or were players designed to be able to bypass the auto-pause? I've heard of players that do offer this capability, but it wasn't standard, was it?

Funny you should mention the Ambersons LD since I literally was transferring the Special Feature section to DVD via DVD Recorder as I read this... Anyway, I don't think there is a way to get rid of the automatic pauses with standard Pioneer LD players. When I transferred the LD, I just held tightly onto the remote and immediately pressed play whenever it paused; anxiously holding onto the remote for 30 minutes does make it hard to actually enjoy though...

On the topic of the Ambersons LD, has anyone experienced the infamous laser rot with these discs? Mine are starting to go sadly... I transferred them just in the nick of time.