Editing in Othello / Mr. Arkadin - Was style born of necessity or choice?

[Jed Leland]

I wish I could agree that it's the closest to Welles's vision. That dvd, with the Welles profile, is very limited in it's flashback. Most of the story is narrated by the character. I wish there was a way to clarify which dvd or video is the one closest to his vision.

If someone out there knows please post a message.

[colwood]

I'm still waiting to read the article (just put it on order through my library) but I thought the consensus was that the version currently in the possession of Corinth Films ( only available through special order vhs) was the closest to Welles' intentions? If someone could post some characteristics of the version closest to Welles' intentions, I could take a look at my Corinth copy and confirm.

[blunted by community]

the version closest to welles' vision - no bats, one story told at party, flashbacks

the 2 versions not close to welles

bats, 2 stories at party, flashbacks

no bats, one story at party, no flashbacks

which of the above is the pipe profile?

[Sir Bygber Brown]

I've just seen the Australian Arkadin DVD, which has the Welles profile on its cover, and i'm pretty sure its the chrono version. Luckily, Tony Curtis is nowhere to be seen... but i'm pretty sure it was chrono, b.c a narrator linked together the story, and it was told more or less one event happening after another.

And btw, i loved it so much! To give my opinion on the original topic regarding Arkadin, i think this, much more so than Othello, was born more of style/choice than necessity. So many wonderful images, so much great stuff - i almost creamed my pants...

[colwood]

I checked out my copy of the Corinth Arkadin last night. Basically, no bats, one story (scorpian and the frog), told in long flashbacks (Van Stratten telling it to Zouk).

I also checked out my copy of the Criterion LD Arkadin. Bats, two stories (second is about an old man at a cemetary), and long flashbacks. I haven't checked out each version in its entirety against the other yet. But one of the differences I have caught is that in the Corinth Arkadin, there is no scene of Mily's body on the beach.

[blunted by community]

is corinth the pipe & profile picture?

an australian arkadin? do they speak with aussie accents?

[colwood]

The Corinth isn't on dvd and last we checked, Corinth had no plans to release their's on dvd.

[andrej]

I think that another Arkadin version could be considered the working print found from Fred Junck in the late seventies and preserved for years and years at the Luxembourg Cinematheque Municipale. That version seem to be the basis for the Corinth version (passage from Arkadin TO Confidential Report, not the contrary, as shown from some details), but with OTHER dialogues (text, tone of voices when words are the same) between Tamiroff and Arden, and probably among the others, Welles included. Obviously not edited and incomplete. And as noticed by Cahiers, with very, very interesting rushes, silent and sound claps, fascinating voices tests by Welles, Mori, Arden, I remember no bats there, but other attempts and ideas for titles, spanish version included, and traces of the very first version of the script (Masquerade), with a good shot between Mori and Arden in Venice airport, and with some text declaimed at the telephone during the false phone-call at the hotel. Hi to all Members here and please forgive my english. It’s my first message.

[Glenn Anders]

Dear andrej: Your report (confidential or not) looks fresh and clear to me.

Welcome!

Glenn

[marcoshark]

Thank you Andrej for the info and welcome. BTW, I tried to contact Cornith video myself and got no reply. Anyone with ideas on this?

BTW, when I picked up my copy (one of the really BAD pd DVD's I think it was from Prism) I showed it to a now ex-co worker. I use to work for the company formerly known as WEA MFG/WAMO. I am one of those guys that make animated motion menus for DVD's. This group was responsible for the 'Kane' and 'Touch of Evil' DVD's, so you can blame that group (now part of a larger Canadian company that I do not have a thing to do with)

Anyway, on all levels, the DVD I use to own was so bad, that it made the rounds as a lesson on how not to make a DVD. It was that bad. But most people I worked with never even heard of this movie and were excited by the fact that this was an 'unknown' Welles movie! I never did get to show them 'Chimes at Midnight', hehehe.

When my then boss saw it, I told him what I knew of the whole story of Arkadin and CR story. I even lent him a couple of books and the Harry Lime 'Man of Mystery' episode. So, even my boss agreed that this had the possibility of a good restoration project of some sort. He even went so far to go to his boss to get some interest on it, but by then, it was too late, the company was sold.

As an interesting side note, my Mom, who use to work in radio in NYC, remembers the Harry Lime series and "Man of Mystery". To my Mom's generation that worked in Radio all those years ago, Welles is the gold standard to radio. So, when she read about this movie, she immediately remembered the Harry Lime episode. She does remember seeing CR in some art house movie theater.

[colwood]

A vhs copy directly from Corinth is pricey. It costs something like $60 or $ 70 to get a VHS copy (or $700 for a copy designed to be played by a tv station).

Someone here emailed them to ask if their was any dvd plans. Basically they said there isn't enough interest in the film for Corinth to release it on dvd. And even if they wanted to, they release all their dvd's through another company and that company is currently releasing their own PD copy of Mr. Arkadin.

So, the best way may be to simply find someone interested in a trade.

[colwood]

I finally got to read the Seven Arkadins article. Basically, Rosenbaum lists them as:

1. "Greek meets Greek" episode of Harry Lime.

2. "Masquerade" an early version of the Arkadin script.

3. Mr. Arkadin, closest to Welles' conception. Version seen by Bogdanovich in 1960. In library of Corinth Films.

4. Mr. Arkadin, the novel not written by Welles.

5. Spanish version of Mr. Arkadin.

6. Confidential Report, European release that contains the "Georgian Toast" and shot of Mily's body on the beach that's not in any other version. Also has the bats.

7. Mr. Arkadin, the public domain version of the film that's the least satisfactory yet most well known in America. "Characteristically, the offscreen narration that begins after the credits starts in the middle of a sentence, with Van Stratten on the docks in Naples."

[Jed Leland]

Thank you for listing them. Now, I hope people will have a clearer understanding of each version.

As I said in previous messages, I don't think the one that is available on dvd is #3. I feel that it's #7.

[Jed Leland]

I forgot to add something. I don't know if any of you have been able to listen to The Lives of Harry Lime, but Rosenbaum decribes the introduction of Mr. Arkadin in Greek meets Greek and I think that might be a misprint. The episode that has Mr. Arkadin in it is Man of Mystery. I'll check again, but I think I'm right.

[R Kadin]

Pricey or not, the Corinth Arkadin was, for me, a must-see proposition - and am I glad I went for it, as it is such an improvement over the other (the U.K. Confidential Report and the public domain) versions. The ordering and delivery processes were smooth, the video quality is terrific and the narrative structure is so much more cohesive and interesting.

Regrettably, regardless of how it's spliced together, the story will always hang rather heavily around its slender central plot device, a flaw that Kane managed to bury beneath its brash bravura and its character-study essence. Given Arkadin's mystery format and a budget and resources that were far too thin for grandiloquent filmic distractions, there's simply no place for its thin centre to hide.

Nevertheless, the Corinth Arkadin is full of marvels and rich in visual style and humour - plus the superb Akim Tamiroff is all over it. It certainly lends support to the argument that lesser Welles trumps many another director's best work.