Editing in Othello / Mr. Arkadin - Was style born of necessity or choice?

[Glenn Anders]

How did you get it? Can you give us some specific examples?

Glenn

[R Kadin]

Glenn - I simply went to the Corinth site and followed the "Contact Us" links to email the sales desk. The fellow there was most accommodating. Payment was via PayPal - couldn't have been simpler (considering that there's a Canada-US currency conversion involved in my case).

As for some visual examples, since the product is a VHS cassette, I am a little challenged to provide any actual screen captures, but here a link to Corinth's page describing its version, complete with a few enlargeable stills:

Corinth Arkadin page

[colwood]

R Kadin, thanks for the link. I traded for a dvdr copy of the corinth version and at the very beginning it states Corinth. But the film runs about a few seconds under 100 minutes. In fact most versions of the movie, I thought, varied between 95 and 100 minutes. Since you have a recently recorded copy directly from Corinth, could you confirm if yours is in fact 110 minutes?

[maxrael]

hi all,

just wondered if anyone is able to detail some differences between corninth arkadin, and the versions we're all used to... eg. bats, no. of flashbacks, any other major differences etc.

best wishes,
max!

"The enemy of art is the absence of limitations."
— Orson Welles

[R Kadin]

I'll gladly double-check for you and post the results here. However, I expect to find that the running time is actually about 99 minutes and that the 110 minutes proclaimed on the linked page is about as reliable as its claim that it's a "color" print.

But, before you trot off to Corinth, you might be interested in taking another Wellesnetter ("Fredric") up on his offer to trade a VHS copy of the Corinth Arkadin. Here's his post from 2 years back (so I hope his offer still stands):

Posted: Mar. 07 2002,10:01

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just got the Corinth version of Mr. Arkadin, which I will compare to the other versions in an Arkadin thread. The VHS was made directly from the film print they had. It's probably the best quality out there.

I'm easy with trades as there is a lot of Welles that I don't have or at least don't have in good quality:

Wants (all VHS copies):
Decent copy of The Immortal Story
Decent copy of One Man Band
The Other Side of the Wind
Or make me an offer (doesn't have to be Welles)

email me at fbarrett@ns2k.com

[R Kadin]

Max - there's a great Arkadin thread here in the archives dating back to 2002. I recommend it to any interested parties, as it exemplifies some of Wellesnet's best attributes.

With respect to your specific question, however (and taking great licence by quoting Jaime Marzol without asking his permission), here's the way he broke down the different versions he had seen:

Posted: Feb. 13 2002,16:49

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:::::::::::

i have no idea how long these films of arkadin are, but here are discriptions:

1 - the voyager disc: papier mache bats hanging over super imposed credits, told in flashbacks, 2 stories at party, arden doesn't have sex with raina.

2 - no bats, one story at party, told in flashbacks, arden doesn't have sex with raina.


3 - no bats, no bats, one story at party, no flashbacks, arden doesn't have sex with raina.


2 and 3 are indentifiable before the movie begins because the cast is listed in order of appearence, so in 2 tamiroff is listed to the begining of of credites, in 3 towards end of credites.

robert arden sucks

i find all 3 films very enjoyable. #1 is the best rounded cut. #2 has a cool, different look than #1, and #3 uses alternate takes that are not in 1 or 2.

i hope i didn't mix up 2 and 3 again.

would be great to come up with a fourth cut.

robert arden sucks

:::::::::::

...and that "robert arden sucks" is sort of the whole point of his being cast, something with which even Jaime himself goes on to agree in a later post.

[colwood]

Maxrael, while I have copies of both Confidential Report and the Corinth Arkadin, the one I haven't yet seen is the one most easily available to the (american) general public, the public domain version of Mr. Arkadin.

In Seven Arkadins, Rosembaum states that the opening 4 or 5 scenes of the Corinth Arkadin correlate to exactly what Welles originally wanted. Welles himself had said that he remembered a shot of a woman's body on the beach.

The Corinth Arkadin is told in flashbacks, has no bats in the opening credits, begins with Van Stratten's narration as he is on his way up to see Zouk, and only has one story (the scorpian and the frog).

Confidential Report has a shot of stuffed bats in the opening credits right before Van Stratten's narration, is told in flashbacks, has a second story (the Georgian toast), has a brief scene of Van Stratten talking with a black piano player, and has the scene of Mily's body on the beach that Welles had remembered.

They're probably other differences, but off the top of my head, can't remember more.

[R Kadin]

Just to follow up on a previous post, the VHS copy of Arkadin that Corinth sent me is labeled at 100 minutes - not 110 minutes, as the website suggests. So rest easy, colwood; yours seems to be the same.

[jaime marzol]

damn, being quoted is frightening.

i no longer prefer arkadin #1. I now prefer #2 (no bats, flashbacks, one story at party). I also like arkadin #3 very much (no flashbacks). i like all 3 arkadins, but now #1 is my least favorite. i don't know why.

also, i now like arden, and i have no explanation for that either.

[Glenn Anders]

I rather think #2 resembles the Golden Version I saw in London in 1955. Wish I could see it again. And I have never understood the offal dropped on Robert Arden for his performance, except that it may have been leveled by people who saw a butchered version of MR. ARKADIN. He plays a loser, an anti-hero, the kind of guy who wants to have his cake and eat it to, but when he can do that, backs off.

Of course, now I would like a version of the picture that includes all the marvelous scenes like the bats and the second story that Welles, in his editorial wisdom, did not include, in what must have been pretty close to #2.

Can anyone describe the scene (in some version) where Arden and Raina have sex? I don't remember that in any version I've seen. They always just seemed to make moon eyes at each.

Speaking of cut films, I have just put up a review of THE STRANGER:

http://www.epinions.com/content_140772085380

Hope you find something new or different in it.

Glenn

[chrissie]

I'm fairly tolerant of the Confidential Report DVD (#1). I wasn't much impressed when I first saw it, esp. quality-wise, as it looks kinda seedy round the edges. Then I bought the 'special edition' of Arkadin, courtesy of Delta (you know, that one with the intro by Tony Curtis' hair). Though interesting for the differences between the prints, the picture quality is really the most stunningly bad I have ever seen on a allegedly professional home cinema release. Transferred from a 20-year-old, battered VHS copy kind of bad. The picture is severely cropped, to boot. I found a whole universe of appreciation for Confidential Report as a result.

[blunted by community]

confidential report has a lot of radical stuff in it. visually it's a brilliant, in your face film. some say it's reponsible for starting the french new wave.

like crissy, watching a knarled, crappy copy sometimes raises my appreciation of the art.

[Flint]

Hi All-
I just got from Amazon.uk a copy of Confidential Report and am thrilled with the improvement over my utterly crappy Mr. Arkadin DVD. Two quesitons: Is Confidential Report the #1Voyager version? Is the Mr. Arkadin DVD the #2 version? If not, which versions are they? (using the number system from previous posts)

Thanks,
Flint