Locarno Wrap-Up

[Gordon]

For me, Bogdanovich's masterpiece is "What's Up Doc?"

Welles made Bogdanovich promise to finish the film. It's just not credible to believe that Bogdanovich has been making that story up.

As for Graver and Kodar's abilities to make movies, watch the clip from the film she directed in Graver's documentary and the documentary itself. Would you like to see The Other Side of The Wind look like "Working with Orson Welles" and "Jaded?'

The problems are related to money more than art. The Iranian financier wrote about ten years ago something to the effect that he was willing to finance Orson Welles while he was alive and making a film, but he is not willing to finance his heirs. This is a reasonable statement.

BWS is demanding protection money. If she gets it, she will have more resources to complicate future legitimate Welles related projects, in the same way that the settlements from one kind of plaintiff's litigation always end up financing the next round of lawsuits.

Oja Kodar was left Orson Welles's claims to the film and she has additional claims for her own contributions as writer, producer and performer. Those can be settled.

If the only thing holding up a deal is Oja Kodar's insistence on final cut I wonder if holding out has been worth it.

[Roger Ryan]

Kevin - You should really see "The Last Picture Show", "What's Up, Doc?", "Paper Moon", "Nickelodeon", "Saint Jack" or the recent comeback "The Cat's Meow" before judging Bogdanovich's abilities - I would say all of those films are superior in their way to the two you mention.

GM - I believe you are correct that Welles intended to suggest that Oja's character in "The Deep" find Harvey's character strangely appealing, creating some ambiguity about whether she should try to escape or not. In my opinion, however, these scenes are quite pedestrian and simply don't have enough substance to make that concept work. I keep referring to the lack of a soundtrack as a major concern here; that's because, unlike most of Welles' work, the visual element is extremely bland and uninteresting and I imagine the dialogue would have to carry these scenes. Even utilizing the resources of a major studio, shooting on small boats is always a challenge (consider "Jaws"). Knowing that Welles had little resources and that Oja and Harvey were probably rarely on location at the same time due to (Harvey's) limited availability, I'm not surprised that the film is visually unimpressive. While I liked what exists of the scenes between Welles, Moreau and Bryant, only the ending fight scene between Welles and Harvey suggested the director's usual choreography and editing ability; the rest could be mistaken for a Roger Corman rough cut!

[GM]

Roger, interesting that you should mention the underwater knife fight at the end, because I seem to remember reading somewhere that that scene was not even directed by Welles, but rather by Welles's Todd School mentor Roger Hill!

Kevin, I would agree with Roger that Bogdanovich has made quite a few good movies over the course of his admittedly erratic career. At least check out "The Last Picture Show" which I think is a great film, and in many ways an updated version of "The Magnificent Ambersons", with the television taking the metaphoric place of the automobile. Also, I thought Gary Graver had avoided softcore land too. Haven't most of his directorial efforts been hardcore?

Gordon, that's an interesting quote from the Iranian financier and I can see his point. Oja and Graver have said they need about 4 million dollars to finish a film that both have said before is 90 percent edited (Now they say only 40 minutes are edited...sounds fishy). But even assuming that they really do need that kind of money, if they think someone will give it to them without Bogdanovich's involvement, I would say they must be dreaming.

[Kevin Loy]

Kevin, I would agree with Roger that Bogdanovich has made quite a few good movies over the course of his admittedly erratic career. At least check out "The Last Picture Show" which I think is a great film, and in many ways an updated version of "The Magnificent Ambersons", with the television taking the metaphoric place of the automobile. Also, I thought Gary Graver had avoided softcore land too. Haven't most of his directorial efforts been hardcore?

Gordon, that's an interesting quote from the Iranian financier and I can see his point. Oja and Graver have said they need about 4 million dollars to finish a film that both have said before is 90 percent edited (Now they say only 40 minutes are edited...sounds fishy). But even assuming that they really do need that kind of money, if they think someone will give it to them without Bogdanovich's involvement, I would say they must be dreaming.

I do owe it to Bogdanovich to check out something like The Last Picture Show before truly passing judgment, and I will do so soon. I have heard from others that he did get an amazing performance out of Cloris Leachman, if nothing else. Before I do that, though (and since I now have a region-free pal-to-ntsc DVD player), I owe it to Orson to check out The Magnificent Ambersons, butchered or not.

As far as Graver, Kodar, and The Other Side Of The Wind are concerned...honestly, they're asking a bit much to request $4 million to finish a film without Orson's actual involvement in the final edit, aren't they? I'd also be a bit hesitant to throw my money into something like that. I mean, it was one thing for RKO to give Welles complete artistic control over his first film (as reckless as that idea potentially was), because Welles had been doing quite a bit to openly establish his brilliance over several years. Can anybody please point me in the direction of something artistically worthwhile that was done by either Kodar or Graver without involving Welles???
As others have pointed out as well, Bogdanovich's name (as well as Orson, of course) is going to help sell this a lot more than Oja's or Gary's names, and since this film is going to be a tough sell anyway, it can really use all of the help it can get, and at least Bogdanovich does have an interest in seeing something happen with the material...and I would hope that, regardless of his own possible ulterior motives, he would have enough respect for Welles' vision NOT to alter his own scenes to make himself look a bit more favorable (and of course, for as much as the role might have been a parody of Bogdanovich...well, you know, he always could have turned it down if he was so offended by it).

[Glenn Anders]

I doubt that Peter Bogdanovich would spoil the potential of THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND to make himself look better. Anything is possible, of course, especially in the ego-driven Arts, but if you spend much time at all watching Bogdanovich in his many interviews (often speaking about Welles), you quickly conclude that he has a self-deprecating sense of humor that would make him likely only emphasize his own character's failings. Irony is his thing, as it was for Welles. And like Welles, he has been both a successful actor and a director.

When he played his part in THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND over 25 years ago, Bogdanovich was still a highly touted director of the American New Wave. It would have seemed amusing to him, back at the time, to imagine that he would have a career, which in some ways, resembles that of his mentor.

He knows, now, that the joke was on him, every bit so much as Welles realized his own reputation back then.

And after all, almost all the characters in THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND are scorpions. It might make sense to turn Otterlake into a kind of Jack Burden-like narrator of some guilty warmth, but I doubt that would be possible, from what little I know of the picture.

As it is, Bogdanovich, despite his personal and professional problems, has the best track record of any younger director associated with Welles. His mistakes were mistakes of love, both on and off the screen. And a couple of the pictures dismissed when he made them, like SAINT JACK, look damn good now. And Bogdanovich freely acknowledges Welles' credit in creating SAINT JACK.

Check 'em out.

Glenn

[Store Hadji]

Regarding Bogdanovich as director, I've always thought Paper Moon was an homage to Ambersons and Touch of Evil - a cross between nostalgia and seediness. Superb film. Very Wellesian.

I thought Nickelodeon was unwatchably poor - but knowing now that Welles had input on the script I need to see it again.

As for Welles having input on Saint Jack - I had no idea, but need to see that one now as well!

[TheMcGuffin]

This is a little bit off of the current direction of the thread, but does anyone have the french version of Journey into Fear and if so is this version of the film the same as the one widely available in America or the newly "discovered" version which has been available on video in the UK?

[Roger Ryan]

The McGuffin - The French DVD version of "Journey Into Fear" is the officially released "U.S." version with Cotten's narration, the Welles-directed ending and distressingly erratic editing throughout.

GM - The underwater knife fight you refer to in "The Deep" was never shot. The Welles-directed and edited fight scene I mentioned in the above post ends with both Welles and Harvey falling overboard into the ocean. According to the script, the fight would have continued underwater and would have been concluded with a shark fatally attacking both men. This underwater sequence is supposedly the one Welles asked Roger Hill to stage in Florida, a request persumably beyond Mr. Hill's resources.

Also, if we're discussing Bogdanovich's allusions to "Ambersons" in "Last Picture Show" and "Paper Moon", let me suggest that Barry Levinson's "Avalon" is most definitely informed by an appreciation of Welles's second feature. Here, the coming of television stands in for the automobile of "Ambersons" as Levinson shows how it disrupts the large immigrant family and destroys their communal traditions. Certainly the final scene where the adult grandson visits his distracted, aged grandfather in the nursing home is a direct homage to the original "boarding house" scene which ended "Ambersons".

[GM]

I've only seen parts of "Avalon". I'll have to check out the whole thing sometime. Levinson had some nice things to say about Welles on Criterion's 50th anniversary "Citizen Kane" LD from 1991. He said it was too bad Welles didn't have a steady patron who could have just said "Let's have another Orson Welles film", and given him the money (like the Borgias producing Leonardo DaVinci and the Rennaissance?).

Barbra Leaming's book claims Roger Hill did film the underwater knife fight (after a painstaking search for a Welles double), but the fake blood gushing from a neck wound turned green underwater, so the footage couldn't be used. I would think there would be some way to computer correct that if the footage does still exist, but as you say, it may never have even been shot at all. There's so much conflicting info about Welles films that it's hard to know what to believe about what exists and what doesn't, until it's actually shown publicly.

[Vidamonte]

I read the script of "The Other Side Of The Wind" and I must say that I would like to see it released according to version in this book that was published in Locarno. I would have no trouble at all accepting it, although I know that done by somebody else it would not come out exactly like Welles had done it, but maybe close enough what Welles thought at the time this version of script was written. Giorgio Cosetti writes in this book, that it was Welles' conscious choice not to finish this work: imagining it always alive and available for remodelling. I have seen the 30-40 minutes that Munich Film Museum shows around and what I could imagine of the rest...how it would be cut, use of sound etc. - fascinating stuff.
And what a great ending.

[Roger Ryan]

GM - Admittedly, I had forgotten about the Leaming account regarding the underwater footage Roger Hill may or may not have shot for "The Deep". Stefan Droessler told me personally in Locarno that the footage did not exist and that he and Oja had discussed the possibility of shooting new footage with doubles. Whether this means the footage was never shot, or it was but has since been destroyed or lost, is unknown. For the record, the rough cut of "The Deep" does feature one brief underwater segment with Michael Bryant.

[Christopher]

I can confirm Leaming's account that Roger Hill shot the underwater scene of the knife fight for THE DEEP but the footage was unusable because the "blood" turned green.

[Roger Ryan]

I can confirm Leaming's account that Roger Hill shot the underwater scene of the knife fight for THE DEEP but the footage was unusable because the "blood" turned green.

Thanks, Christopher. I will assume then that this footage is among the lost elements for "The Deep". I neglected to mention this before, but the work prints are reportedly all that remain from this project; the negatives are believed to have been lost or destroyed.

[colwood]

Maybe this has already been mentioned. But about a year ago, stefan made a comment that this past spring he was visiting a vault or something in France to view a couple cans of film that was suppose to contain footage from the Deep. At munich, did he mention if he had viewed these cans? Was there any new material there? If so, was any of this included in his workprint?

[Roger Ryan]

colwood - I was unable to attend the Locarno workshop on "The Deep", so I have no idea what infomation was presented there, but Stefan did not mention to me that he discovered any new cans of film recently when we discussed this project. The work print reconstruction presented in Locarno combined at least two work prints that Welles worked on in the late 60s plus some "dream sequence" footage with Michael Bryant and Oja that Welles shot a year after the initial shoot with the full cast. Stefan theorized that perhaps, after that initial shoot, Welles saw Luis Bunuel's "Belle du jour" and decided a dream sequence would spice up his thriller. Was this additional footage part of one of the work prints or did it come from somewhere else? I don't know, but I do know Stefan made the decision himself to use the dream sequence as a framing device and placed portions of it at the beginning and end of the work print reconstruction. In an article he wrote for "The Other Side Of The Wind" book concerning Welles's unfinished work, Stefan stated that only the work prints for "The Deep" have survived, nothing else. Given that the "Wind" book is newly published, I would assume this is the most up-to-date information.