Orson Welles on Dick Cavett - July 27, 1970

[Tony]

Do you remember Welles talking about Limelight? He said flat out that Keaton was 100 times better, funnier, than Chaplin, but that Chaplin cut most of Keaton out to make himself look better.

Oh yeah: I just watched Mitchum's segment, and he recounted how he wrote an oratorio (an oratorio! By Mitchum!) for the first Hollywood Bowl tribute concert for the first Jewish refugee, a concert "masterminded by Orson Welles".

Did anybody hear about this concert?

[Kevin Loy]

Tony,

I have yet to watch any of Keaton's films (though I intend to check out The General in the near future), but it was always my understanding that the story about Chaplin cutting out Keaton from Limelight was just a rumor (the IMDB also says this...admittedly, the IMDB isn't the greatest source of information in the world...)

I still can't help thinking that Welles felt some personal animosity towards Chaplin (and vice versa) over Monsieur Verdoux. From what I can tell, it has never really been established just what did take place: Welles maintained that he wrote a screenplay, even outlining scenes (as I remember) in This Is Orson Welles, others have said this is false. Welles also said that the "based on an idea by Orson Welles" credit didn't appear until after the film's premiere (I've never seen anybody challenge this particular claim), which was a deliberate move by Chaplin. For what it is worth, however, David Robinson claimed that the initial contract between Welles and Chaplin stated that the film would run with the credit "based on an idea by Orson Welles". But nonetheless, since the film came out after "The Stranger" (which was Welles' only commercially-successful film in the US), and since it was a commercial (and critical) failure in the US, it isn't hard to see why Welles wanted to distance himself from it.

Given your thoughts (and the thoughts of others) on the matter of Keaton and Chaplin, as well as the (paraphrased) statement by Welles about The General, I'm even more surprised that City Lights was on his personal top-ten list (as I said before, I do think City Lights is over-rated. It is good, but it isn't *that* good). But, of course, Welles was always adept at unleashing surprises...whether pleasant or unpleasant.

[tonyw]

I wonder whether Welles was expressing frustration at the status Jerry Lewis had in some critical circles at the time? Does Welles not refer positively to Lewis in THIS IS ORSON WELLES? McBride's biography often notes that Welles often expressed envy at certain people who were doing well at the time he was still struggling to make his films? He was very caustic to Peter Bogdanovich during the mid 70s and I believe that he later told one interviewer that he intended to refrain from making comments about other directors?

Perhaps this was a bad evening for him and we should not judge him over this one outburst?

[Jeff Wilson]

I'm not sure why anyone would think less of Welles for venturing his opinion, however harsh, about Lewis or whomever, even if it was on national TV. He was a human being, and he certainly had as many flaws as anyone else.

Mitchum's "oratorio" was just a tall tale. Mitchum was many things, but I don't believe a classical composer was one of them.

[Tony]

Jeff:
Of course, everyone has the right to act like a boor, and Welles was a boor when he attacked another artist. It didn't make Lewis look bad, it made Welles look small. But as you say, Welles was human. It still doesn't excuse boorish, rude behaviour. and obviously it doesn't affect my estimation of him as an artist for me, as I am not a 'psychologizer' like Glenn: I couldn't care less about the artist's personal life.

As for Mitchum, that he wrote an oratorio for a jewish benefit concert hosted by Welles seems not in dispute:

"[Mitchum] co-wrote and composed an oratorio produced at the Hollywood Bowl by Orson Welles."

This is on every site with Mitchum's bio.

:;):

[Tony]

Jeff:
Of course, everyone has the right to act like a boor, and Welles was a boor when he attacked another artist. It didn't make Lewis look bad, it made Welles look small. But as you say, Welles was human. It still doesn't excuse boorish, rude behaviour. and obviously it doesn't affect my estimation of him as an artist as I am not a 'psychologizer' like Glenn: I couldn't care less about the artist's personal life. And there are plenty of other examples of Welles's boorishness.

As for Mitchum, that he wrote an oratorio for a Jewish benefit concert hosted by Welles seems not in dispute:

"[Mitchum] co-wrote and composed an oratorio produced at the Hollywood Bowl by Orson Welles."

This is on every site with Mitchum's bio.

:;):

[Jeff Wilson]

The Mitchum thing was previously brought up here four years ago; there was no evidence we could find for it then, beyond a lot of people repeating other people who said it actually happened. So again, unless someone can produce concrete evidence that it happened, consider me a non-believer.

Previous Mitchum thread

[NoFake]

I just went to the horse's mouth -- the Hollywood Bowl, asking them to confirm (or refute) Mitchum/Welles. I'll post their reply, if and when I receive one.

[Tony]

Thanks NoFake!:)

[rep]

Resurrecting a very old thread, I think this story could well be true. Mitchum didn't make his first movie until 1942, but in the years before that, he had been trying to make a career as a young writer for hire around town, since he'd come to live in LA in 1937. He started acting first with the Long Beach Players Guild, and wrote a few plays for them, and around the same period was selling material, skits and songs (apparently risqué) to nightclub acts, and had some work supplying dialogue for radio serials (his sister, Julie aka Annette, was acting in one).

The comedian Benny Rubin became aware of his nightclub work, and the two struck up a deal for Mitchum to write material for Rubin's act. The story goes that Rubin was invited to perform a short piece as part of a 1939 German Jewish Relief Fund gala show staged at The Hollywood Bowl, and that Mitchum wrote the oratorio Rubin performed on the night.

Now, I've not been able to find much of anything much yet about this particular gala night. But given the whirl of activity Welles was engaged in around 1939-40, and that he was just beginning to be courted and introduced around Hollywood, and that this is exactly the sort of thing he would have got involved with, I wouldn't discount this story out of hand, especially given the Welles-Rubin/ Rubin-Mitchum connection: Welles used Rubin a few times on radio around this period, and would later cast him in Kane, and The Other Side Of The Wind.

It would be great if someone could turn up more info on this event. If you check out this newspaper archive link, by the way, you'll find a column entitled "What They Once Were," compiled for Walter Winchell by Rubin, where he lists Mitchum's previous career as "songwriter."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 53,1989722