The Deep Rough Cut?

[Jay]

I've read elsewhere about a rough cut of this film existing. Has anyone seen it? I'm wondering if anyone has a copy of the workprint that currently exists (I'd love to trade for it, if it does indeed exist). I know this is a long shot, but it can't hurt to ask.

[RayKelly]

The Munich Film Museum is working on a restoration using a work print.
The negative was apparently destroyed.
I have seen some of the footage at a showing at Harvard in 2008.
I posted my observations at http://www.wellesnet.com/?p=302

[Roger Ryan]

I mentioned this elsewhere on the site, but I've been able to see the full 2-hour rough cut and it left me disappointed. This is not to disparage any of the work that Mr. Droessler has done, but there was little on film that made me think Welles was onto anything more than a bland made-for-TV movie. Keep in mind that the rough cut's 2-hour running time incorporates numerous repetitions of shots and scenes as Welles was experimenting with alternate editing choices. Removing all of the duplication and the film would probably run a half-hour shorter. The overall performances and direction felt very pedestrian to me, although Welles' choice to perform his own role in a comic manner seemed like it had potential. While the rough cut is invaluable as a glimpse into how Orson Welles approached the editing of a film, I can't imagine anything close to a "finished" version could be accomplished given how little audio exists; I'm thinking only about 25 - 30% of the film had any audio at all and most of that was less-than-successful post-sync dubbing (Welles trying to imitate Laurence Harvey leaves a lot to be desired).

The trailer that Welles completed was pretty good and I wish he had the money and resources to work on this film more.

[Jay]

Thanks to both of you. Roger, how did you manage to see an entire rough cut of the film? Was it screened publicly? I'd like to see this at some point, but who knows if that will ever happen.

[mteal]

In 1976 Welles told Charles Higham that he did not want THE DEEP to come out before TOSOTW because WIND was more the kind of grand film statement that he wanted to begin his comeback with, whereas DEEP was a simple genre picture. But after the negative of WIND fell in the hands of the Ayatollah, one would think he would wanted to have gotten SOMETHING out. It really is unfathomable how Welles, a man who Chris Welles Feder said "lived for his work", could allow an entire film project (two if you count DON QUIXOTE) to go to a complete waste. In FILMING THE TRIAL, Welles says the only two films he did not complete were QUIXOTE and WIND, which suggests that THE DEEP was finished. What happened to that finished film? Was it trashed? I think it's likely that Welles felt the film simply did not measure up to his standards. If that's the case, too bad. From our point of view, bad Welles is better then no Welles.

[Jeff Wilson]

Thanks to both of you. Roger, how did you manage to see an entire rough cut of the film? Was it screened publicly? I'd like to see this at some point, but who knows if that will ever happen.

Roger and I both saw the rough cut at the Locarno Film Festival several years ago, and I would echo Roger's statements that it's pretty forgettable and too hampered by technical issues to ever come out in any truly complete form. There is a tendency to expect all this missing footage from Welles to be hidden gems just waiting to be revealed, but a lot of his post-1960s work (for me, at least) is pretty disappointing and depressing to watch (F for Fake and a couple other things notwithstanding).

[mteal]

Yes, I've heard more then one person say, after viewing the WIND footage (specifically the 1999 Graver/Kodar rough cut), that it caused them to wonder about Welles's state of mind. Most of his post-1960's work involved Oja Kodar, and keeping her happy was probably one of the prime objectives of that work. I haven't seen enough of it myself though, to really make a judgement.

Wish I could remember where, but I seem to recall Keith Baxter, Welles's Prince Hal in FALSTAFF saying he had seen a completed version of THE DEEP. Even if it was true, it doesn't mean it still exists.

[Roger Ryan]

The big climatic scene is missing from THE DEEP (Welles asked his mentor Skipper Hill to try and shoot some "second unit" shots for this scene in Florida sometime in the 70s, but Welles didn't like the footage), but most of the rest of the film seems to be "there" even if very little of it has usable audio. As assembled, it is simply not recognizable as a Welles film. If you were not told that Welles directed it, you would think it was helmed by some journeyman TV-movie director. There are moments where the direction and editing are competent, but nothing one would call skilled.

[mteal]

Welles could easily have filmed an underwater knife fight while they were in Yugoslavia. That he would have his old school teacher, who had no professional film experience, direct part of the film's climax is almost laughable, and says a lot about his attitude towards the film.

If THE DEEP looks like a Made-for-TV movie, Welles should have just sold the film to a TV network for completion funds. Then they could have broadcast it with much lowered expectations and we woud have at least had a film. Instead, what we have is the detritus of a film.

[Glenn Anders]

Jay: Ray, Roger, and Mike have said pretty much all there is to say about THE DEEP, in its relatively rough recent condition, unless Stefan Droessler in Munich can hear our piteous calls. He told Baesen and me that he hoped to find additional soundtrack elements in other archives, but as it stood, I thought, once fully registered and processed, the film could make a moody Conradian thriller. Needed additionally was the always missing trademark Wellesian explosion and that underwater knife fight Ray mentions. And of course, continuity, which is where the Editor's magic always comes in. At the time THE DEEP was shot, the film might have made a memorable entertainment. [Sam Neil and Naomi Watts didn't do too badly with the original plot, a few years later.] But, today, there are dozens of such pictures out there. Just turn on the minor film channels any evening.

Ray's report on Droessler's public showing of the Welles' material reminds me how much more intriguing I found THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND assemblage than THE DEEP stuff. Yet, as Ray reports, Droessler was much higher on THE DEEP than he was TOSOTW. Still, "the screening room sequence" (which I recently posted on another thread) strikes me, at least, as containing a hint of unique Wellsian promise. It might well be, Ray, that Jake Hannaford's picture doesn't make any sense -- that may be the point of this fractured film within a film -- it's a running joke, a sendup of a portentous Antonioni film of the period, but in a crazy way, it threads the main plot together with the ongoing action . . . and, also, reveals the tragic truth eating away at old Director Hannaford, that he can't make that kind of film, which the fashionable critics of the 1970's were oohing and ahh-ing over.

With apologies for hijacking the thread, I ask you to take another look, guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewC7f_RKTAQ

What do you think?

Glenn Anders

[Jay]

That clip from TOSOTW looks unlike anything else Welles has ever shot--the rapid jump cuts are jarring, which makes me wonder how it would play out over a couple of hours. I get the feeling that it you're prepared for it, it would be fine. That's not to say that I didn't find it interesting; I just find clips like these hard to judge devoid of context. I will say this--it makes me want to see the film more than I did before.

Some other clips were shown at the AFI tribute, right? So I wonder--if the entire AFI tribute is out there, couldn't we conceivably get our hands on the other clips shown at the tribute?

[RayKelly]

Yet, as Ray reports, Droessler was much higher on THE DEEP than he was TOSOTW.

Of course, if I was the guy restoring The Deep I would do my best to convince everyone who would listen that it was more worthwhile than OSOTW and serving of serious attention.

I am with you Glenn, OSOTW appears to be more interesting. Like Jay, I had qualms after seeing the quick edits of the Screening Room sequence during the AFI Tribute. However, after reading the script a year or so I felt better about OSOTW.

[Jay]

So he's actively working on a restoration? How long has that been going on? It seems like at least a few years, right?

[RayKelly]

I have no idea. I assume funding is the main obstacle. The print has to be cleaned and voice actors hired to dub new audio.
I wish the Munich Film Museum would release what they have restored (Magic Show, Lindberg, Dreamers...)
on a series of DVDs.

[mteal]

Sounds to me like they should just make a documentary of THE DEEP as an unfinished film, like the one on It's ALL TRUE. I was fascinated by the one last year that was made for H.G. Clouzot's L'ENFER.