‘My Lunches with Orson" from Henry Jaglom

[RayKelly]

Orson Welles’ candid lunchtime conversations with director Henry Jaglom will be the basis of the upcoming book “My Lunches with Orson: Conversations between Henry Jaglom and Orson Welles.” Peter Biskind (”Easy Riders, Raging Bulls”) is editing the book using transcripts of conversations taped by Jaglom. The book will be published July 9 by Macmillan/ Metropolitan Books. Read more at http://www.wellesnet.com/?p=2238

[tonyw]

I hope it will not resemble that Groucho interview book published by the editor of those photo study film books years ago when many unfortunate things were said. The problem is that Welles is no longer with us to see the transcript and that is a matter of courtesy with any living subject. In Sarris's INTERVIEWS WITH FILM DIRECTORS, Welles remarks that he does not make caustic remarks about his peers any more since he realizes that they are all working in a common cause and that negative remarks are unneccessary. It is also suspicious that a fairly inactive directors is briging out this book at this particular time.

[Roger Ryan]

To be fair to Mr. Jaglom, he has just released a film, JUST 45 MINUTES FROM BROADWAY, that is receiving some of the best praise of his career; he is also in the post-production phase of another film, so I don't know that "fairly inactive" would be accurate. All the same, I agree that publishing private conversations is a questionable practice. Then again, since many have noted that Welles appeared to be performing even when in private conversation, it's possible that much of the book will be similar to anecdotes we've already heard.

[mteal]

I also agree it is a pretty questionable practice, although Jaglom claims he has proof on the tape that Welles knew about the tapings, contrary to what some have insisted. I have to admit I'm curious about what the book contains. In his films, Jaglom frequently has shown a penchant for drawing very private feelings out of people.

[tonyw]

Were Welles still alive, the producers would insist that Jaglom obtain a signed release from him to avoid litigation. This is quite a common but very tedious practice in the book and article interviews I've done. Let us hope that this will be a sincere tribute and not a "scam" or disgrace like Richard Anobile's infamous interview with Groucho Marx.

[swell]

Henry Jaglom recently posted some 20 min of Orson's "The Other Side of the Wind" without authorization. The clip was obviously used to stir interest in his book about lunch conversations with Orson.
Well, here is a little story about those conversations:

Orson and Jaglom had numerous lunches as friends.  I remember the day when Orson came home from the last of these lunches with Jaglom and I noticed that he was visibly shaken, very sad and disappointed.

I was in the room with Orson later when he received an overseas call from Oja and heard him confide in her what he had experienced.

At that last lunch Jaglom had finally slipped and accidentally admitted to secretly taping all of their conversations.  In retrospect, as he spoke with Oja, he remembered one particular time when he noticed Jaglom fiddling with his ever present shoulder bag which he had laid on the table next to him.  Orson realized now, after the fact, that Jaglom must have been fiddling with a tape recorder that he had hidden in that bag.  Oja asked him why he didn't confront Jaglom, to which Orson answered that he was too ashamed for him.

In Orson's words: "I felt like a friend stole my watch.  I could see the bulge in his his pocket, but was too ashamed for him.  So the only thing I could do was simply let him go…."

Orson never quite recovered from that betrayal and in fact died soon thereafter.  While I doubt that that was a direct cause of his death, the continuing betrayals and disappointments he experienced in those later days, both from Jaglom and from many others that Orson trusted and believed in, was, I believe, a contributing factor.  Many people, myself included, feel that Orson died as much from a broken heart as he did from physical causes.

[mteal]

Thanks for your very interesting post, Swell, and welcome to the board. These accusations have been made by others as well, and of course, it’s pretty difficult for us outsiders to know what the truth of this story is. Certainly, however, there has been little evidence from Jaglom to refute your statement, although as I mentioned above, he does claim to have it somewhere on tape that Welles knew about and gave his blessing to the lunch recordings. If Jaglom does indeed have that evidence, I would think he would want to produce it by the time the book comes out. Otherwise, there might be a shadow hanging over it.

[RayKelly]

Henry Jaglom was quite gracious and discussed the upcoming Peter Biskind book, as well as "The Big Brass Ring" and the leaked footage from "OSOTW."
You can read the Wellesnet interview with Henry Jaglom on the main page at http://www.wellesnet.com/?p=5365

[ToddBaesen]

Ray, thanks for that nice interview with Henry Jaglom.

However, I find it rather bizarre that Mr. Jaglom says he has no idea how the scenes from THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND ended up on his YouTube and Vimeo pages! I love the fact that he (or somebody) posted them, but I find it rather hard to believe he didn't know anything about it.

It's also interesting that Mr. Jaglom says he wants any money made from the book to go to Oja Kodar, who of course ordered all the OSOTW footage removed from his YouTube site.

Ms. Kodar, who acted in Henry Jaglom's SOMEONE TO LOVE apparently does not have a very high opinion of Orson's great friend, since in her interview on Wellesnet, when talking about Welles unfinished films she said something like, "With Jaglom you hope to God he doesn't finish the movie!"

[RayKelly]

Todd,
My impression was the YouTube page which bears his name was set up by someone else.
(There are plenty of fake official pages on YouTube).
He posted the OSOTW video -- which he says he received from someone he didn't know -- on his Facebook page.
Well, if that is the case, it was only a matter of time before it was appropriated and ended up on YouTube and Vimeo.
And if the YouTube page is not his, why would he care if Oja had it removed?

[ToddBaesen]

Thanks for the clarification.

I didn't realize that the YouTube page was not really Henry Jaglom's, in which case it makes more sense that he wouldn't know anything about who posted it.

[RayKelly]

Todd,
It's my impression based on his statement "how and why they were posted on YouTube under my name, I have no idea."
There are 3 possibilities:
- The YouTube page is his and Henry Jaglom posted it. (If so, why deny it since he admits to posting the video on Facebook).
- The YouTube page is his and someone hacked in and put up the video. (Strains credibility a tad)
- It's a YouTube "fan" channel and a Jaglon admirer uploaded the video. (More likely, especially since the gender of the YouTube "Henry Jaglom" is listed as female in the profile.

[mteal]

J for Jaglom: He had to know it would be copied once he posted it. Maybe the fake Jaglom is a fake fake. Whover's responsible, I'm glad it's there. Jaglom's explanation for the recorded lunches is weird, but not totally implausible. I think Welles was doing a similar thing with Roger Hill, using casual conversations to jar his memory for a possible autobiography. Of course, Leaming's book could almost be considered semi autobiographical.

[RayKelly]

Mike, like you I am glad he posted the clips. It only served to fuel public interest in "OSOTW."

I don't buy the fake, fake YouTube channel possibility. It has 12 videos on it and existed long before this clip went up.
There many celebrity impostor channels and twitter accounts out there. This would be no different.

BTW, If Henry Jaglom has Welles on tape asking if the recorder is working, which he says he does, it ends the debate on whether Welles agreed to being taped.

[mido505]

I believe Jaglom. When those clips were first posted, my immediate thought was "what is he doing with footage from TOSOTW?"

Seriously, although Jaglom is in the footage, why would he have the footage? Did Orson give it to him for his birthday? Did he steal it from Orson's closet and shove it down the front of his pants while Orson was in the bathroom and Oja was getting more ice? Really, think about it.

Either Jaglom is correct, and someone posted under his name without his knowledge, or someone with access to the footage posted with Jaglom's knowledge, although his denies it.

The correct question to ask is, who likely had access to the footage?

Gary Graver has left us, so we pretty much have Oja, Bogdanovich, someone at Showtime, someone in Munich, perhaps McBride, perhaps someone at Astrophore. Any other suggestions would be welcome, but I think that's it.

My guess is someone is trying to cause trouble for Jaglom, because of the book. Perhaps one of the people claiming that Jaglom taped Welles without his knowledge, which I don't believe. I think Welles told some people that he was taped without his knowledge, in order to distance himself from some of his more poisonous remarks, which is not the same thing.

Posting this footage under Jaglom's name would aid the narrative that Jaglom was trying to profit, or gain attention, from Welles material that he had somehow "stolen", wouldn't it? You know, like the book?