Official OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND Thread - All things OSotW he

[mteal]

I think you’re probably right, Ray. If money was the only issue, I would think TOSOTW’s producer, Frank Marshall, could have raised ten times the amount needed, since he’s been working with Lucas and Spielberg for the past 30 years.

About 15 years ago, I heard an interesting story from Michael Dawson, producer of Beatrice’s OTHELLO restoration. He said that in the mid-90’s Clint Eastwood had offered to put up the money to buy the negative of WIND, but that the Iranian rights holder had jacked up his asking price as soon as he found out that Eastwood’s name was involved. Several years ago I heard that the Iranian guy had been bought out, but I have no idea who owns what concerning the film now. It’s hard to get straight answers out of anybody and when a little bit of information is put forth by someone, it often seems to contradict things that we’ve heard before. I certainly wouldn’t want to invest any of my money in such a snake pit, even if I had any to invest. For further depressing details about the periodic raising and dashing of hopes about WIND, just reread this epic thread, probably the longest in Wellesnet history.

[gazza]

SAY YES TO ORSONS WIND

[tonyw]

Gazza, I think we are all agreed on this point. But copyright is a minefield and nobody wants to invest money in something that an unknown person will claim owenership when it is near completion. This is just one of the many complications in this ongoing saga.

[gazza]

Isn't it a shame something like this is being blocked because of money... ( who said money was the root of all evil ? ) ... I'd say if somebody was still alive he'd bend the appropriate party or parties over his knee and give them a good spanking. God bless you Orson.... there are good people out there trying.

[tonyw]

One of the worst obstructions can come from family estate executors who have their personal favorites and block others out. This is from personal experience. I have a book project (not on Welles) but this will remain silent until it appears and nobody can do anything about it. Also, film company lawyers can be the worst. Mention an interest in seeing something and threats of legal action immediately appear.

[Eve]

...a few (rare) behind-the-scenes photos by Jose Castellvi...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-PHOTOS-ORIGINAL-The-Other-Side-of-the-Wind-MOVIE-ORSON-WELLES-JOHN-HUSTON-/261127933518?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item3ccc700e4e

[ToddBaesen]

Nice to see those photos, but this is part of the problem with OSOTW. Asking $500. for six photos is quite absurd!

It's also why FALSTAFF remains unseen. People seem to think Welles name is worth big money, when just the opposite is true.

If FALSTAFF should come out on Blu ray I'd guess it would only sell 5,000 copies or less!

[RayKelly]

Some 22 minutes of previously unseen footage from OSOTW has surfaced online, apparently courtesy of Henry Jaglom.
Watch the footage at http://www.wellesnet.com/?p=3276

[Roger Ryan]

A great find, indeed! Certainly in line with the rest of TOSOTW footage I've seen: very rough assembly, almost random intercutting and the sense that there are a lot of dynamic one-on-one conversations that may or may not be moving the plot forward. One can see what a challenge it would be to attempt a polished edit of this material.

A few thoughts:

Dennis Hopper appears to be commenting on his own film, THE LAST MOVIE, when he mentions that the viewer will see the film being made within the film.

Immediately after Otterlake is asked to comment on the difference between a zoom and a dolly, there is an insert shot showing what Joseph McBride has referred to as the "poor man's dolly" used during shooting: the cameraman reclines on a piece of carpet or rug which is pulled across the floor by another crew member.

The character of Burroughs appears to be based on Skipper Hill with the reference to the Boys' School being surprisingly autobiographical. Note that you can hear Welles quietly giving direction during Burroughs' entrance scene.

Billy's line about "collecting" the schoolteacher strongly recalls Bernstein in KANE commenting on how Kane is "collecting someone who is collecting diamonds".

The semi-improvisational feel of the footage in total is not dissimilar to Nicholas Ray's final feature WE CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN made around the same time. Ray's film, recently restored, has just been released on Blu-ray. To my mind, THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND is far more interesting than what Ray was doing and I wish we would have some kind of official release by now.

[akio]

It was nice to see Stafford Repp, who I recognized from his role as Chief O'Hara on the old Batman tv series.

I recall reading the Jaglom scenes were unscripted; Welles just gave a basic outline of the scene and deliberately vague directions to argue about Hannaford and his fascist tendencies. The rest was improv. They have the feel of an unrehearsed exercise.

[mteal]

Glad to see these extra scenes; fascinating. Based on all the footage I’ve seen personally so far (maybe 40 minutes worth, total), I think it might be quite possible to make a good movie out of it, but whoever does eventually get the job probably needs to heed the words of Francois Truffaut, who described an Orson Welles film as being

"Shot by an exhibitionist, but edited by a censor."

Nice observations, Akio and Roger. I would never have guessed that was Chief O’Hara; good eye, Akio. It would be interesting to find out more about what his role is, as he seems a somewhat Quinlanesque figure. However, it’s actually Edmund O’Brien’s character Billy who eats too many sweets as a substitute for the hooch (a’la Quinlan).

Very interesting Roger, about Burroughs being a possible avatar for Roger Hill. If so, that might have some autobiographical implications for the John Dale character. Amazing the way Welles movies need to be analyzed in so many different ways. Anyway, it’s good to see Dan Tobin working with Welles again, and I love the shot of Burroughs reacting with total bewilderment to the camera shooting him with the luggage – for no apparent reason. That seems to be a running joke throughout the film.

[Roger Ryan]

...However, it’s actually Edmund O’Brien’s character Billy who eats too many sweets as a substitute for the hooch (a’la Quinlan)...

Actually, that's Norman Foster playing "Billy". Although he handled a few acting roles, Foster is best known to Welles' fans as the credited director of JOURNEY INTO FEAR and the MY FRIEND BONITO segment of the unfinished IT'S ALL TRUE.

Regarding the Burroughs/Hill connection, the line that jumped out at me was when Burroughs refers to Dale as being called "Oscar" back in his school days. This appears to be a set-up for the little joke about the Academy Awards a couple of lines later, but "Oscar" is awfully close to "Orson"! Welles didn't completely shy away from personal references in his work. Most surprisingly are the references to a mentally ill brother in both the early play BRIGHT LUCIFER and the screenplay for THE BIG BRASS RING; these seem to be directly inspired by Welles' own relationship with his older brother Richard. In THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND, almost everyone involved has a real-life counter-part: Bogdanovich is really playing himself (the young hot director who successfully navigates the new Hollywood while his aging mentor has trouble raising funds), the characters played by Susan Strasberg and Joseph McBride have been linked to real-life critics/writers Pauline Kael and Charles Higham respectively (although with the name "Juliet Rich", Strasberg could easily be a stand in for critic Judith Crist), the studio head appears to be modeled on Robert Evans, etc. Perhaps both Dale and Hannaford (the "ford" part probably acknowledges John Ford) are meant to represent the young and old Welles. Although, as a character, Dale is pretty much a cipher. At any rate, I feel that part of Welles' approach to TOSOTW was to use his own experience and history to satirize the film business.

[mteal]

Right you are, Roger, thanks for the correction. I’ve only seen a couple of Foster’s acting roles, but one is in an early, unsung 30’s film that I like a lot called SKYSCRAPER SOULS. I try and catch it whenever it’s on TCM.

“Perhaps both Dale and Hannaford (the "ford" part probably acknowledges John Ford) are meant to represent the young and old Welles.”

That’s a possibility, given that Welles seems to have done a similar thing in THE BIG BRASS RING, with the Menaker and Pellarin characters. The name “Hannaford” also recalls Ernest Hemingway and the bullyish gay-baiting that Welles claims Hemingway resorted to on the set of THIS SPANISH EARTH.

[ToddBaesen]

Stafford Repp appears to be playing the lines in the script that were meant for both MATT COSTELLO (Paul Stewart) and MAGGIE (Mercedes McCambridge) who were obviously not available on the set that day.

Does anyone know the actor playing HYMIE FRANKL, who has just arrived from Texas after trying to get funding for Jake's film from Texas oilmen?



#


MAGGIE
Frankl's here - he just got in from
Texas...

BILLY
(entering scene
from another direction)
I brought that teacher, Jake; I got
him waiting at the pool...


JAKE stops in front of HYMIE FRANKL (a long-time, part-time, member of the organization).


FRANKL
Lousy, awful trip...

JAKE
(turning on BILLY)
And YOU?

BILLY
(startled)
Jake! I just TOLD you...

JAKE
(quietly)
That's kept you busy - just collecting
school-teachers?

BILLY hopes his rueful grin will signal a reminder to JAKE that he's also been occupied with JACK SIMON... But there's no indication that this registers.

FRANKL
(plaintively)
Hey, can I please get myself something
to eat?

JAKE
Didn't they feed you, Joey?

MATT
All they do on airplanes is feed you.

FRANKL
Turbulence...

JAKE
(cheerfully)
You threw up? Give him some candy,
Billy.

BILLY
(patiently)
I didn't "collect" the teacher, Jake,
he met me at the screening –

JAKE
(quickly, quietly)
With Max -?

FRANKL
Look, Jake, those oil guys, they
want no part of us.

JAKE
(after a short silence,
cheerfully)
Neither does Max - Right, Billy?

THE BARON
(joining the group)
Max David -?


He stops. He knows the answer... PAT is behind him.

FRANKL
That dirty crook - who needs him?

MAGGIE
WE do...

PAT
Max? - he's so crooked he's got
rubber pockets so he can steal soup.

He looks around - not really hoping for laugh and certainly not getting it...

MATT
Our best chance was that oil money...

BILLY
And Otterlake - what about HIM?

OTTERLAKE
Yes, what ABOUT me?

They turn to find OTTERLAKE standing nearby...

PAT
(a lightening quick cover-up)
Brooksie! - we just wondered if you
knew about the drive-in?


#

[mteal]

Stafford Repp appears to be playing the lines in the script that were meant for both MATT COSTELLO (Paul Stewart) and MAGGIE (Mercedes McCambridge) who were obviously not available on the set that day.

There seem to be almost too many characters in this film, but then the whole thing is a party, like the making of the film itself seems to have been. Unless you meant that this was just rehearsal or pickup footage. In any event, it must have been pretty early in the shoot since Stafford Repp died in 1974, according to Wiki. I wonder if any of the Rich Little (as Otterlake) footage still exists. I believe one of these recent eBay photos shows Little with Huston, the first I've seen of this earlier incarnation of the film:



I don't recognize the actor playing Hymie Frankl, but Jake Hannaford's attempt to get oil money from Texas reminds me of Welles's attempt to get funding from the Shah.