Cut footage from LfS and Stranger

[colwood]

This may have been asked before but I couldn't find anything through the search engine.

Of Welles' 13 finished and released films, it can be argued that four are currently not in (or close) to Welles original intention or "final cut." Ambersons has been well documented. Seems no one can say there ever was final cut on Arkadin except for possibly the version that Glenn frequently cites seeing in 1955. Which leaves The Stranger and Lady from Shandhai.

From what I've read, The Stranger's cut consisted of a 30 minute scene of Meineke in Latin America. The Lady from Shanghai's cut involved a change in music, the inclusion of music in the final scene, and an hour of footage that Welles had in his original cut. My question, does anyone know what the lost footage from these two films entails? What exact plot points were lost, what the footage involved, what the storylines were, do stills of the footage or shooting scripts detailing the footage exist similar to Ambersons?

[dkovacev]

You can find lot of info on Stranger and Lady from Shanghai in Clinton Heylin's book "Despite the System". Chapters on both films have descriptions of early script drafts, final shooting script and cutting continuity of original Welles versions. Deleted footage of both films is probably destroyed long time ago, and I'm not sure that any stills of lost scenes have survived at all. I've never seen published any stills from Stranger, and some surviving photos from LFS are probably just the publicity stills, and not actually taken from film itself.

[Glenn Anders]

The footage cut from THE STRANGER, about 20 minutes, shows Meineke searching through South America for Kindler, contacting other escaped Nazi war criminals in safe houses and colonies (which seemed a noir fantasy at the time, but, which like the newsreel of the death camps, we know now, existed). And of course, Edward G. Robinson's investigator is following Meineke in order to find Kindler himself, creating an interweaving parallel story line, which would have dovetailed with the rest of the movie.

In addition to the alterations that dkovacev notes in THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI, an even longer length of footage was cut from that picture: "The Fun House Sequence." It was said to be a tour de force nightmare piece, a kind of psychological "newsreel" of Mike's perceptions. Welles, I believe, said it was the best single bit he ever did in films. Little but
"the shattering of the mirrors" climax remains.

The footage is probably all gone, but stills do exist. Video Watchdog printed the cutting continuity for the missing portion of THE STRANGER, along with some stills from the sequence, several years ago. Someone here countered that they were only publicity photos, but if so, they were pretty strange. One, I remember. was just of the front of a stuccoed South American house at night, with the silhouette of a man smoking against a dim light. I've also seen several shots taken from THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI of Welles in a state of disaray at the fun house.

Glenn

[colwood]

Thanks for the info guys.

I haven't yet checked out Heylin's book, the reviews haven't been too kind (but that's all subjective). But I'll definetly check into it the next time I'm at the bookstore.

[jaime marzol]

I don't think any footage was cut out of the stranger. What watchdog may have printed are the scene breakdown sheets, which have all the scenes that were written in the final shooting script, 9/24/1945. Before filming began, the scenes that are considered missing scenes along with scenes that were filmed and are in the film today, were crossed out of the shooting schedule. The continuity script, which is done for legal reasons, is exactly as the film stands today. I do not think these missing scenes were ever filmed. I know 2 respected books say the scenes were filmed, but i researched in the same place one of those books researched, and i didn't any proof.

i've seen that picture of meineke against the stucko building, i think it's a publicity shot. looks like it was shot on that set with the archways.

the stranger evolution according to what i have found:

8/9/1945 bitching temporary draft written by veiller, huston and welles

nimms and speigel tamper with the bitching temporary draft, cut out a bunch of scenes, and this edited version became the final shooting script, 9/24/45.

secretary types the scene breakdown sheets from the 9/24/45 final shooting script.

producer types shooting schedule from the scene breakdown sheets.

before filming began, scenes were crossed out of shooting schedule. so now both drafts of the screenplay have a bunch of scenes that are not in the film.

some of the scenes crossed out of the shooting schedule are in the film today, the majority are not.

what they mostly cut out is the geography of the film. both rankin and mary tool around town in open roadsters. they cut out rankin meeting and courting mary. they cut out a bunch of south america stuff. they cut out another demented speech in the church tower by rankin. the curch confession happens in a speeding roadster. too bad. it could have been an incredible movie as written.

the continuity script is written from the release version of the film. continuity is exactly as the film stands in the roan dvd.

in the 9/24 draft welles had a lot of the cut out scenes trimmed down and as alternate scenes, but none are in the film today.

But tons of stuff was cut out of lady from shanghai.

[jaime marzol]

also, some of you might find this interesting.

rankin's connection to clocks

rankin first meets the longstreet's grandfather clock, then their daughter. he ends up aquiring both. that is the clock he windes later in the film

when mary mentions noah's growing friendship with mr wilson, off screen a clock spring pops and breaks.

IN FILM - when the rankins arrive home from the dinner scene, when mary says CLOCKS, the kitchen light comes on rankin's face.

the demented speech in church tower that is cut out, rankin discribes how the branches of government should operate like the components of a clock.

IN FILM when the big clock begins to work rankin's life begins to unravel.

IN FILM when he's nerved out he windes the grandfather clock.

IN FILM when he escapes he takes refuge in the clock tower from where he is flung to his death.

huston and welles wrote a great story. speigel and nimms hacked it quite a bit.

[jaime marzol]

also, as written:

the dog kennel scene where meineke gets drugged and questioned has all through it the sound of vicious dogs growling and barking.

the ending has all through it the sound of the ticking clock. they tried this but removed it. i know because i found 2 clock ticks on the sound track.

[Glenn Anders]

Dear jaime: Thank you for those interesting observations -- astounding observations, really -- of THE STRANGER.

They certainly add layers of meaning to the film.

I once had a philosophy professor, who said that he had known a number of Nazi academicians, and one of the striking things about them was the number who collected or repaired clocks and watches. He linked their hobby to the mechanical, artificial nature of their metaphysics, epistemology, etc.

You also suggest the idea of being brought to retribution, the hope that all these banal monsters would be revealed and brought to justice. Alas, we now know, have had fresh evidence in the last month, that the CIA employed escaped war criminals in the Cold War during the years immediately following the release of THE STRANGER, and smuggled them into our country under diplomatic immunity and by special legislation, as a reward, giving them new identities -- like the one Kindler/Rankin had.

[I found it ironic, spooky, that years later, the professor I mentioned above, a European, left his wife and ran off with a young graduate assistant to New York. Evidently, he had come into some money because, I was told, he spent the rest of his life -- repairing clocks!]

In regard to the South American sequence, I guess it was you that I had the disagreement last time. I can only say that there are a number of accounts giving evidence that the footage with a South American setting was shot by Welles for THE STRANGER, but cut by Editor Ernest Nimms, at the order of Sam Spiegel, then in his first position as a producer.

For instance, according to a November 2003 article by J. D. Lafrance, the South American sequence was shot and then deleted. I quote from his footnote to that article:

"The 30 minutes of footage that was cut featured a large chase between Wilson and Meinike as he tried to locate Kindler in Argentina. Producer Sam Spiegel ordered the film's editor to cut this footage because he felt that it did not advance the story."

Or let me quote extensively, and in more specific detail on the matter, from a Rob Nixon "Turner Movie Classic This Month Article" (in reference to an upcoming showing of THE STRANGER on May 25, 2005):

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"Welles originally wanted fellow Mercury theater player Agnes Moorehead (who appeared in both Citizen Kane and The Magnificent Ambersons) as the Nazi hunter Wilson. "I thought it would have been more interesting to have [him] tracked down by a spinster lady than by Eddie Robinson, but they wouldn't agree to it," Welles later said. Eager to please and re-establish himself as a desirable director, however, he went along with their suggestion. Ironically, Robinson turned out to be the difficult one, going into a "big sulk," Welles said, because he thought Welles was shooting his bad side. The director had a hard time imagining how someone as bulldog ugly as Robinson could consider himself having a bad side, but discussed the problem with leading lady Loretta Young (whose good side Welles was favoring). Young agreed to allow a switch in the angle of shots to keep Robinson happy. But she had her own issues. In the scene where Mary first encounters her future husband, she is supposed to be on her way to church but decides to go for a walk with Charles instead. A devout Catholic, Young refused to be seen skipping services, so Welles changed the scene to another day of the week when Mary was simply out walking her dog. Such were the "artistic" decisions he was faced with to prove himself cooperative and efficient.

"But he accomplished his goal and the picture came in on time and under budget, with Welles submitting himself to the exact opposite deal he had with RKO. Producer Sam Spiegel (then working under the name S.P. Eagle because he thought it sounded more distinguished) had been a great admirer of Citizen Kane and wanted to work with Welles. He approached Welles to play Kindler under the direction of John Huston. But Welles asked Spiegel point blank if he could helm the project, and not wanting to lose him as an actor, the producer agreed. But to lessen the risk, Spiegel hired editor Ernest Nims to provide a tightly pre-edited shooting script and told Welles the plan had to be followed to the letter. The contract also stated that if Welles strayed outside the agreed parameters, he would be fired as director but forced to remain as the star. Welles accepted. But he was not pleased with the final product. He tried to buck Nims on a sequence set in Latin America that would have shown the fleeing Nazi. Welles filmed some of those scenes, receiving a deep wound on his leg where he stepped on a bay coffin in one action set-up. He later said the scar left by the wood slicing into his skin "always reminds me of what was lost from that movie." The critics and the public were not enamored of the picture either, but Welles' uncharacteristic concession to studio demands and the fact that it was his only picture to be truly profitable, paved the way for him to originate a project in his more familiar filmmaking style. His next movie, The Lady from Shanghai (1948), in which he cast his soon-to-be-divorced wife at that time - Rita Hayworth - would be as cinematically daring as The Stranger was conventional."

--------------------

And so, once more, it's a question of who we're going to believe, Welles or others (us)?

I'm going with Welles.

To disagree a bit with Mr. Nixon, it is what you have revealed about the "clock theme," Jaime, the first use of footage from the Nazi death camps in a feature movie, and his bold revelation of the "ratlines" taking war criminals to South America and then to the U.S. which makes Welles' THE STRANGER, potentially and actually, far from conventional; in fact, as daring as several other of his films sometimes cited for their daring.

Glenn

[Roger Ryan]

Welles filmed some of those scenes, receiving a deep wound on his leg where he stepped on a bay coffin in one action set-up.

This should actually read "baby" coffin, one of the darker elements that I'm sure contributed to this sequence being cut. Regardless of whether the South American scenes were actually shot, they certainly would have set up a great juxtaposition against the Norman Rockwell-like American town. Does anyone know what action was cut during the long tracking shot following Meineke as he departs the boat? The edited sequence features a dissolve where the beginning and end of the shot are joined, but there is definitely several seconds missing from the middle.

Also, among the production stills available for the funhouse sequence from "Shanghai" are ones that show Welles standing beneath a ceiling with women's legs portuding through and a disturbing skeletal representation of Hayworth's character with a cigarette dangling from its skinless jaw!

[jaime marzol]

the clock stuff is great.

does any one know where the research resources are that made these writers think that this stuff was filmed? i would really like to know. the john huston collection is now in LA and has a few drafts of the screenplay, and some photographs from the movie, though they will not tell me what the stills consist of. and USC has papers from that production company that financed the stranger. there are stills there but i will not know what they have till i go there.

it's also interesting, that after years of bunches of writers reporting that huston had wanted to direct THE STRANGER but that welles pushed speigel etc. in the cavasoni book she mentions the piles of letters and telegrams she went through between huston, veiller, and speigel, and huston directing was never mentioned.

[R Kadin]

I have held forth previously that "The Stranger" has been under-appreciated by many - although not many, here, I am pleased to see. Even in its studio-tamed final form the film is rife with structural, thematic and stylistic elements that hint at the far more ambitious aspirations underlying it.

By the above accounts, then, Welles appears to have conjured up his trademark and cutting-edge, multi-dimensional cornucopia of fascinating riffs; the only difference this time was that he was resigned to leaving them to the deciding hands of others. Small wonder, knowing as he did of the rich bounty he had actually sown for this project, that he came to dismiss the rather conventional dish the studio then made of it.

Happily for our part, however, we get to value what's on the screen all the more, recognizing in it reflections of the unseen richness surrounding it. The more we can unearth on it, therefore, the better.

On that basis, then, it might not be too great a stretch to suggest that, as a project, The Stranger had much the same potential as LFS, except that the latter benefited from at least some of Welles' editing talents, a contribution that, constrained though it might have been, nevertheless made for a much more compelling result.

That and a leading lady to die for (well, almost)... but I digress.

[Glenn Anders]

Thanks, Roger, for clarifying that typo. It's in the original copy, and I could not think, for the life of Welles, how he stepped on "a bay coffin"! I imagined him leaping from small coffin to small coffin in the Bay of Rio.

"A baby coffin," of course, but the reference is still somewhat enigmatic.

Jaime: James Naremore, in his discussion of THE STRANGER, noted that John Huston wrote the screenplay and was interested in directing it, but that RKO owned the original property, and he was still under contract to Warner Brothers. Besides, just after the War, he was still in uniform. Welles took over, and after revisions by Welles, and contributions by Speigel, Anthony Veiller got sole credit. (The original story by Victor Trivas was nominated for an Academy Award.)

And Jaime: One of the original sources for the story of the thirty minutes cut from THE STRANGER, which has been widely discussed in reviews, and summarized in the "trivia" section for the film on the IMDb, appears to be a letter that Welles wrote to Peter Cowie, years after shooting the footage. As described by Frank Brady, in Citizen Welles (p. 179), Welles explained to Cowie that two reels of film dedicated to the South American hunt -- according to him, the best thing he contributed to picture -- were scrapped by the producers.

Of course, the metaphor of "the paper chase" in THE STRANGER would have fitted into the symbolism of wasting time, Jaime, in the touches you found about "the clocks," and would have been strongly reinforced by the absurd spectacle of Agent Wilson following the converted Meineke following the Nazi Kindler from Europe to South America, and from there to the bower of New England's First Families; Kindler, by then, reinvented as Charles Rankin, teacher at a kind of Phillips Andover, prep school for future Presidents and Supreme Court Justices. What could be a more beautifully ironic description of the real life paper chase which was allowing thousands of Nazi war criminals to slip from Europe to South America, and in many cases, to the United States -- where some of them became important U.S. Government officials?

On a day when the archly conservative Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI, was proclaimed the first German Pope in history, it might be useful, if spooky, to look carefully at Welles' fear that Hitler's Kindlers would form a "Fourth Reich" which might envelop America.

Here is the URL for my review of THE STRANGER; it contains a number of further details from the Video Watchdog cutting continuity of the missing footage (a request for which began this thread), and observations on this theme:

http://www.epinions.com/content_140772085380

[It is, of course, too early, and no doubt unfair, to characterize the new Pope. However, it is astounding that Ratzinger is a former Nazi Youth, a former teenage antiaircraft Flack crew helper, and ex-German war prisoner. After his rapid rise to Cardinal, he became known as "Gott's Rottweiller" and "The Pope's Enforcer." He is on record as feeling that the former Pope was far too liberal, and he lists himself as opposing almost every modern political philosophy, which he calls examples of "relativism." But nowhere in those quotes I've read so far does he mention fascism.]

I know I've referenced the above review before, but maybe we should be digging around for those two reels of old negatives. They might add to the meaning of what should have been one of Welles' most prescient motion pictures: THE STRANGER.

Glenn

[Glenn Anders]

Colwood, Roger, Jaime, R Kadin: Yesterday, after ringing off here, I unearthed my long lost copy of This Is Orson Welles (Revised Edition), and the Blue Birds we seek were all there.

On page 186, Peter Bogdanovich questions Welles about script for THE STRANGER, and Welles tells him that he "worked on all of it during the general rewriting with Anthony Veiller and [Producer Sam] Spiegel -- wrote all the stuff in the drugstore as well as the first two or three reels of the picture . . . ."

Bogdanovich asks him: Did you shoot it?

OW: Yes, A big chase in South America, with a whole series of very wild, dreamlike events which worried Spiegel and [Executive Producer] Goetz . . . . "

Welles goes on to conclude, on page 187, "They removed two reels of material which was certainly more original than the rest."

In Rossenbaum's timeline of Welles career, he notes, on page 397, that the Original Running Time of THE STRANGER was 115 minutes, and that, of course, the Release Running Time is 95 minutes. In other words, at least 20 minutes were taken out. He also credits in his Editor Notes, on page 523, the Second Edition of James Naremore's The Magic World of Orson Welles (which I don't have) with showing that the original picture "was almost half an hour longer than the release version and also contained an expressionist dreamlike sequence."

In regard to the LADY FROM SHANGHAI, on page 196, Welles says, "The most interesting sequence, in the fun house, has all but vanished . . . . This was to have been THE big tour de force scene . . . ."

Facing that page (197), there are a series of stills from the "fun house sequence," including the Rita Hayworth-like decayed face, you mention, Roger, with cigarette dangling from fleshless jaws; and Welles with a skeleton; a painting of male figures, some of whom have prosthetic legs; and figure lying at the center of a spider web.

Likewise, Rossenbaum writes on page 402 that the Original Running Time of THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI (in rough cut) was 155 minutes. The Release Time now is 86 minutes.

He also recommends to us in his Editor Notes on page 525:

"For a fascinating speculative discussion of what THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI was like in its pre-release form, when it was almost an hour longer, see the final chapter in the revised edition of Naremore's The Magic World of Orson Welles, which draws upon some of the scripts and other materials housed at the Lilly Library of Indiana University."

I think we have gathered enough material to show that both THE STRANGER and THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI were fashioned by Welles to contain lengthy enriching sequences featuring surreal elements, which were actually shot by the director but cut away by producers, to "advance the picture," robbing the released films of much of their magic.

Glenn

[jaime marzol]

paper chase is the set-up to dislike rankin. the paper chase sets up rankin ripping pages from the bible of the praying man he just strangled. and after stangling the praying man and ripping sheets out of his bible to divert the paper chase, next we see him standing at the altar in a religous ceremony. this is fabulous stuff.

and what more proof do we need that rankin is a bad guy, he kicks a dog..

fascinating the missing minutes of the stranger running time.

[jaime marzol]

i tend not to rely so much on welles' memory. he had forgotten the wholesale butchery he himself had to execute on lady from shanghai. after that, i tend to think that while he conceived stuff for some of his films he saw it so vividly that years later he thought he had filmed it. i've made the same mistake. it's easy to do.

the one thing i have trouble with is that baby coffin comment. neither draft of the screenplay or the other production papers mention anything about a baby coffin. the bodies in the morgue scene, as written, are on slabs of marble and covered in white sheets. no mention of coffins. would cheapskate producer speigel allow welles this luxury?

i have the contract welles signed to make the stranger, have not read it yet, but that might reveal a few things. i'll report back when i read it.