Hascy Tarbox?? - What do we know about OW's early rival?

[R Kadin]

Barbara Leaming's Welles bio makes repeated references to this fellow as one of OW's earliest rivals for acclaim at the Todd School. By her description, he was one of the few people around whose star shone as bright - if not, at times, brighter - than Welles' own during those impressionable years.

She describes him as going on to a career as a commercial artist and illustrator of some renown and offers a few of his memories of the Todd years, but that's about it. Like his school chum, Hascy Tarbox passed in some years ago, I believe.

It seems a bit odd, though, that for all the space Leaming devotes to this person and for all the early competition he apparently presented for Welles, there is little other trace of him anywhere, by my informal research, at least. It's odder still when you consider that a name like that alone should be enough to cement a person a definite place in history (with all due respect to his namesake grandson who, I understand, is still very much among us).

I suppose he intrigues me because, according to Leaming at least, he used to give Orson Welles a real run for his money long before Orson Welles became "Orson Welles".

Does anyone happen to know anything more about him? Ever seen examples of his work? Do all Welles bios accord him a similar stature? Did the two mens' paths ever cross again?

Don't mind me... this is just a minor, though niggling, preoccupation with some of the more obscure elements of the Welles saga...

[Jeff Wilson]

Read Callow's book then, because he uses Tarbox as a primary source for that period. I haven't looked at Callow's book in a while, but from what I remember, Tarbox had little good to say about Welles. Which shouldn't be surprising, considering the nature of their relationship. And with the slant of Callow's book, he was a perfect source.

[R Kadin]

Thanks, Jeff. Doesn't hurt to hear what "the other side" has to say every now and again, I suppose. Builds perspective, eh?

[jaime marzol]

welles' modern day comments were one of the more interesting aspects of the leaming book.

that whole tarbox thing was funny. welles' nemesis, tarbox, and that welles felt competition! tarbox is basically just a regular guy of no particular acclaim, when compared to welles. if i remember right, welles said that he had ventured out into the world, and tarbox had stayed on a todd school.

like rkadin says, such a name, had we ever read it attached to anyrhing, we would have remembered it.

welles, in his late 60's, telling leaming, "that kid, tarbox, always hated me." at a time when tarbox was probably in his70s.

[jaime marzol]

double post by accident.

[haskytar]

Perhaps I can add a bit of clarity to this discussion. My Grandfather, Hascy Tarbox, 1918-1991, never considered himself any sort of rival with Orson. The show business world was of zero appeal to Hascy I, and that is why he did not persue such a path. Fame was not one of his aspirations, for Hascy Tarbox was without pretense, and he never was one to seek the fleeting glory of celebrity.

When Orson was a student at the Todd School for Boys, in Woodstock, IL, Hascy's future in-laws, Skipper(Roger) and Hortense Hill, my great-grandparents and the Todd School directors, defacto adopted Orson as one of their children. This was a relationship that lasted until Orson's death in 1985. Following Skipper's death in 1990, my father, Todd Tarbox, aquired scores of tape-recorded telephone conversations, that span many decades, between Hortense/Skipper and Orson. Skipper recorded almost all of his telephone conversations, but the Orson tapes are particualrly touching, as Orson contunues to seek the advice and mentorship of Hortense and Skipper into the 1980s.

If there was any "rivalry" it would have been a sibling-type rivalry between Orson and Skipper and Hortense's own children, Betty, Joanne (Hascy's wife), and Roger.

The notion that Hascy Tarbox and Orson Welles were bitter rivals is a myth. Orson did publicly, and perhaps privately too, speak of a perceived bitterness, but there was no such actual animosity on Hascy's part.

I hope this information is useful.

Selah.

[jaime marzol]

i always got the impression from leaming book that the competition was in orson's mind. it seems orson felt competition with a lot of things, which i'm sure contributed to a lot of his problems.

[R Kadin]

First, let me thank our new visitor, Hascy II, for stopping by and sharing those family insights with us. (BTW, H-II, if there are examples of your grandfather's work available anywhere, it sure would be fascinating to have a peek sometime.)

Not that I presume to speak for the group, but I sure hope you feel free to come by here whenever you like and don't be shy to join in as you will.

How many of us would kill just to hear the least little snippet of those recorded conversations! It's also good to get a healthy and directly-informed perspective on what might well be a misunderstood part of Welles' formative years.

Also, H-II, am I right in thinking you might be something of a Sony Betamax afficianado? If so, and given wide scope of expertise enjoyed by many contributors to this site, who knows what resources the good people of Wellesnet might be able to suggest? Guys? Gals? Anything to offer our guest?

As for OW's sense of rivalry, given that the one thing he never really had was a stable personal family background (aside from the surrogate family the Hills soi generously provided), it's easy to see how he might feel forever like an outsider, however warm his welcome elsewhere. It had to be the kind of thing that would exaggerate certain sensibilities in a sensitive youth, the kind that might lead a fellow to see slights and rejections where none ever really existed. It might also explain, in part, the tumultuous nature of several of his relationships over the years.

[jaime marzol]

there are many instances in welles' life, in his actions, and reactions, that many writers have opted to chalk it up to welles behaving like a lout, but never taking into account the psychlogical effects of the blows life dealt him.

when he was in rio, getting telegrams of the unraveling of the ambersons, no writer has taken into consideration of how this affected him; a man who had such a meteoric carreer, triumph after triumph. having his first film almost destroyed, now his second film was being destroyed while he was helpless to do anything about it but sit in rio and hear the bad news.

have read so many times about welles going nuts in brazil and ignoring his responsibilities, partying and not answering phone calls. i always felt that he went off on a psychological bender and that is why he didn't answer the calls. much like he did after he lost control of touch of evil. and there again the studio accussed him of not responding.

welles never had a real home till he was in his 40's. he had only lived in borrowed castles, rented villas, and hotels. to some degree, this accounts for never seeing in any orson welles film a person rising out of a comfortable bed, or rubbing his feet. the confortable family atmosphere that hitch was able to recreate in his films, welles never did. when there was a comfortable home, it was being shared with a nazi (the stranger). look at the tight assed atmosphere in the diner scene in ambersons. seems only the actor's heads are alive, the bodies are stiff like manekins.

around the time that welles began to experience domesticity for the first time in his life, in touch of evil we see susan comfortable in bed, half asleep sighing. in the trial the advocate, hasller's entire part was played in bed, wearing pajamas.

just observations i'm posting here for feed back.

i'll shut up now.

[jaime marzol]

no i won't shut up yet, i have one more observation.

frank brady claimed that as a child of 8, orson was allowed to stay up with the adults as long as he was entertaining. when he acted his age he was proptly put to bed.

i've always felt that to some degree that accounted for the frenetic feel we get in a welles film, where he has 12 things going on at once, and then throws the kitchen sink at you.

when bogdanovich asked him why he felt like he needed to have so much going on, he said he felt the audience would get bored and fall asleep.

[R Kadin]

Interesting observations, Jaime M. Might also be consistent with the way Welles characterized the Mercury troop as a family and virtually lived in the theatre in the course of many productions. It even invests "The Stranger" with a greater poignancy than perhaps it has been accorded to date.

You just might have a great little book idea of your own brewing, there...

[mteal]

Jaime,
Good point about Welles characters being stiff in the body, like mannequins. In some Welles films, this, along with all the post-synching, created what Dave Kehr described as "the effect of a sinister puppet show". This may have been influenced by Brecht, as there is a passage in Leaming's book which talks about Brecht and a style of acting where the actors basically manipulate themselves like large marionettes.

Thanks to Hascytar for the interesting insights into Welles' relationship with the Hill family. When I was at the Lilly Library recently, I skimmed thru Roger Hill's autobiography and took some crude notes. Welles ventured out into the world while Hascy Tarbox stayed in the Woodstock area, and Hill confirms that "Travel was always Orson's addiction...also his education". He also says that Orson "had a fantastic capacity for absorption and an infatuation for everything Irish". These statements seem absolutely correct to me.

There doesn't seem to have been any animosity towards Welles on Tarbox's part. In fact, according to Hill's book, Tarbox directed the first and, as far as I know, only stage production of Welles' youthful MARCHING SONG, a huge 4-hour epic about anti-slavery crusader John Brown that was co-written with Hill. Of course,Tarbox and Hill did trim the play down to about 2 hours, as Hill described the 4-hour original as "interminable". If Hascytar has any further info on this production, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

[Nepenthe]

Do we know anything more about the tape-recorded telephone conversations, that span many decades, between Hortense/Skipper Hill and Orson Welles?

[Roger Ryan]

Do we know anything more about the tape-recorded telephone conversations, that span many decades, between Hortense/Skipper Hill and Orson Welles?

I must assume that the family of Hascy Tarbox still has possession of those now. The University of Michigan Special Collections library (which houses the largest Welles archive) may be interested in purchasing those tapes if the family sought to have the tapes properly archived.