Attempted translation of Don Quixote article
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Bantock
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Attempted translation of Don Quixote article
Last edited by Bantock on Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roger Ryan
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Alan Brody
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ToddBaesen
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As Hank Quinlan says in TOUCH OF EVIL: Keep it in English! I don't speak Mexican!
I find it interesting to note that Vargas first name is Miguel - could it be Welles tribute to Cervantes?
After all, Welles went to Mexico to start shooting on DON QUIXOTE right after he was asked to leave the editing on TOUCH OF EVIL by some idiot executive at Universal.
This little fact seems to be a key point to me in understanding Welles so-called "abandoning" his film projects while they were in the key editing stages. Here was a man who obviously had a very large ego. But none of his movie contracts after CITIZEN KANE actually gave him "final cut" on his own movies! The point is, as a film artist, Welles always expected that courtesy. So if Edward Muhl or some other executive at Universal said to Welles, "why don't you let us finish the editing," he would naturally be furious and leave in a huff. This is such a basic fact of life for an artist, I can't imagine how any writer who knows anything about Welles career could possibly be critical about him in this regard.
For comparison, can you imagine if some Broadway producer or director said to Eugene O' Neill or Tennessee Williams, "let's cut out this scene of rape or lobotomy." Or some art dealer tried to tell Picasso that while Guernica is a wonderful canvas, it's all so grim in black and white. Can't you add some color to it?"
As artists, Picasso, O' Neill, Williams and Welles were all uncompromising and would never agree to suggested changes like that. Welles, however never had the same kind of control he had after CITIZEN KANE. So what could he do in protest when the studio wanted to re-cut his work? Nothing, except walk away from the studio taking his own picture away from him in the phase he considered the most important to it's artistic success: the editing.
I find it interesting to note that Vargas first name is Miguel - could it be Welles tribute to Cervantes?
After all, Welles went to Mexico to start shooting on DON QUIXOTE right after he was asked to leave the editing on TOUCH OF EVIL by some idiot executive at Universal.
This little fact seems to be a key point to me in understanding Welles so-called "abandoning" his film projects while they were in the key editing stages. Here was a man who obviously had a very large ego. But none of his movie contracts after CITIZEN KANE actually gave him "final cut" on his own movies! The point is, as a film artist, Welles always expected that courtesy. So if Edward Muhl or some other executive at Universal said to Welles, "why don't you let us finish the editing," he would naturally be furious and leave in a huff. This is such a basic fact of life for an artist, I can't imagine how any writer who knows anything about Welles career could possibly be critical about him in this regard.
For comparison, can you imagine if some Broadway producer or director said to Eugene O' Neill or Tennessee Williams, "let's cut out this scene of rape or lobotomy." Or some art dealer tried to tell Picasso that while Guernica is a wonderful canvas, it's all so grim in black and white. Can't you add some color to it?"
As artists, Picasso, O' Neill, Williams and Welles were all uncompromising and would never agree to suggested changes like that. Welles, however never had the same kind of control he had after CITIZEN KANE. So what could he do in protest when the studio wanted to re-cut his work? Nothing, except walk away from the studio taking his own picture away from him in the phase he considered the most important to it's artistic success: the editing.
Todd
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mido505
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Keats:
A while back on another thread I wrote the following:
"I was rewatching the ONE MAN BAND documentary this evening and was struck by the following quotation from Orson during the segment on Isak Dinesen: "Isak Dinesen was a Dane, who wrote under that name, and I've been in love with her, since I opened her first book. In life, she was the Baroness Blixen, and to her close friends, she was Tanya."
How appropriate, touching, and revelatory, that when Welles created his great Mother/lover/goddess figure for Marlene Dietrich in TOUCH OF EVIL, he gave her that name, Tanya."
Was I correct that Orson was consciously linking the two ladies, fictional and real? I don't know, I never got to ask him. But noting the coincidence is illuminating, as is Todd's supposition about Miquel Vargas. Like Cervantes' great creation, Don Quixote, Vargas is a noble knight out of touch with his age, AS IS HIS OPPONENT, QUINLAN. The difference among the three men is that while Quixote becomes a slightly ludicrous figure, and Quinlan becomes completely corrupted by his corrupt age, Vargas retains his nobility even as his is forced by circumstances to use methods which do not jibe with his convictions. Rather than "lead us to strange places", Todd's observation opens up fertile interprative territory. Thank you, Todd!
A while back on another thread I wrote the following:
"I was rewatching the ONE MAN BAND documentary this evening and was struck by the following quotation from Orson during the segment on Isak Dinesen: "Isak Dinesen was a Dane, who wrote under that name, and I've been in love with her, since I opened her first book. In life, she was the Baroness Blixen, and to her close friends, she was Tanya."
How appropriate, touching, and revelatory, that when Welles created his great Mother/lover/goddess figure for Marlene Dietrich in TOUCH OF EVIL, he gave her that name, Tanya."
Was I correct that Orson was consciously linking the two ladies, fictional and real? I don't know, I never got to ask him. But noting the coincidence is illuminating, as is Todd's supposition about Miquel Vargas. Like Cervantes' great creation, Don Quixote, Vargas is a noble knight out of touch with his age, AS IS HIS OPPONENT, QUINLAN. The difference among the three men is that while Quixote becomes a slightly ludicrous figure, and Quinlan becomes completely corrupted by his corrupt age, Vargas retains his nobility even as his is forced by circumstances to use methods which do not jibe with his convictions. Rather than "lead us to strange places", Todd's observation opens up fertile interprative territory. Thank you, Todd!
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tony
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Actually, I believe the Dietrich character's name is "Tana" not Tanya.
And didn't Welles stick all these little references in his films not for deep meaning, but rather just for fun, and as a way of thanking people who had helped him in life? I don't think we should get too serious about all this. Welles said he hated symbolism, and heavy handed symbolism is rare in his films: his film language is more subtle that that, I think. But I do recall a terrible instance of heavy-handed symbolism in a Welles film, and it's in the Trial when all the waiting clients had numbers on their chests. YIKES! I always cringe when that comes onscreen.
But that's rare with Welles.
And didn't Welles stick all these little references in his films not for deep meaning, but rather just for fun, and as a way of thanking people who had helped him in life? I don't think we should get too serious about all this. Welles said he hated symbolism, and heavy handed symbolism is rare in his films: his film language is more subtle that that, I think. But I do recall a terrible instance of heavy-handed symbolism in a Welles film, and it's in the Trial when all the waiting clients had numbers on their chests. YIKES! I always cringe when that comes onscreen.
But that's rare with Welles.
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The Night Man
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I thought so, too, Tony, but the Comito-edited TOE screenplay lists her name as "Tanya". I'll have to look at the film again to get this straight.Tony wrote:Actually, I believe the Dietrich character's name is "Tana" not Tanya.
Whenever I see this statement from Welles I have to chuckle. My mind goes immediately to the scene in TOE where Menzies lures Quinlan out of Tana/Tanya's whorehouse and in at least one shot (maybe more) Quinlan is carefully framed with a bull's head and bullfighting paraphernalia conspicuous on the wall above his head.Tony wrote:Welles said he hated symbolism...
What a fibber Welles was. He used symbolism when it suited his purpose but talked as if he didn't.
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mido505
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Tony:
Although Dietrich's character's name is pronounced "Tana" in the film, it is spelled "Tanya" in just about (although not all) sources at my disposal, including IMDB, Frank Brady's Citizen Welles, Clinton Heylin's Despite the System, James Naremore's The Magic World of Orson Welles, and the special edition DVD itself. I was wondering what the spelling was in the TOE screenplay, but Night Man has solved that one for me. Wikipedia and TCM do, however, use the "Tana" spelling.
Interestingly, "Tana" is the name of the leaf used by various nefarious High Priests to resuscitate dusty old Kharis in Universal Pictures' (the same studio that produced TOE!) delightful Mummy series although, confusingly, in the original film of the series, The Mummy, Boris Karloff's undead Egyptian is named Im-Ho-Tep/Ardath Bey, and is revived by reading the ancient Scroll of Thoth. The original Mummy was the first film directed by famed cinematographer Karl Freund, who later went on to direct Mad Love, which was photographed by Greg Toland, and from which, as we all know from esteemed critic Pauline Kael, Welles stole all of the imagery displayed in Citizen Kane, also photographed by Toland.
What can we infer from this?
Although Dietrich's character's name is pronounced "Tana" in the film, it is spelled "Tanya" in just about (although not all) sources at my disposal, including IMDB, Frank Brady's Citizen Welles, Clinton Heylin's Despite the System, James Naremore's The Magic World of Orson Welles, and the special edition DVD itself. I was wondering what the spelling was in the TOE screenplay, but Night Man has solved that one for me. Wikipedia and TCM do, however, use the "Tana" spelling.
Interestingly, "Tana" is the name of the leaf used by various nefarious High Priests to resuscitate dusty old Kharis in Universal Pictures' (the same studio that produced TOE!) delightful Mummy series although, confusingly, in the original film of the series, The Mummy, Boris Karloff's undead Egyptian is named Im-Ho-Tep/Ardath Bey, and is revived by reading the ancient Scroll of Thoth. The original Mummy was the first film directed by famed cinematographer Karl Freund, who later went on to direct Mad Love, which was photographed by Greg Toland, and from which, as we all know from esteemed critic Pauline Kael, Welles stole all of the imagery displayed in Citizen Kane, also photographed by Toland.
What can we infer from this?
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Glenn Anders
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"What can we infer," mido?
Well, if any of us went in for this kind of thing (which, of course, we would never do), Helen Grosvenor , otherwise known as the Princess Anck-es-en-Amon when slipped a cuppa Tana Tea, was played by Zita Johann, the ex-wife of John Houseman. That adds one more of those fascinating coincidences.
Glenn
Well, if any of us went in for this kind of thing (which, of course, we would never do), Helen Grosvenor , otherwise known as the Princess Anck-es-en-Amon when slipped a cuppa Tana Tea, was played by Zita Johann, the ex-wife of John Houseman. That adds one more of those fascinating coincidences.
Glenn
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mido505
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Good morning, Glenn!
I've missed you, you've been so reticent lately! I wrote that little Mummy bit specifically to smoke you out. It's been a depressing week, and I need a little levity to put a smile on my face!
Of course none of us here would ever go in for that sort of thing. For instance, I would never note that the star of Hammer Film's glorious Technicolor remake of The Mummy (named Kharis, from the Universal sequels, but revived by the Scroll, as per the original) is the great Christopher Lee; who, only a few years earlier, had appeared as A Stage Manager/Starbuck in the unreleased and now lost TV version of Welles' play Moby Dick Rehearsed. Lee, who seems to have known everyone, was good friends with occult novelist Dennis Wheatley. Several of Wheatley's novels (including The Devil Rides Out, later made into a film by Hammer starring Lee) feature a character very obviously based on The Great Beast himself, Aleister Crowley, purported grandfather of the 43rd POTUS, now presiding over what may be the most devastating financial and economic meltdown of the capitalist era, an event so cataclysmic that some of our more hysterical and mystical commentators are using that dread word...Armageddon! As I said, it has been a rough week. Do I need to put The Late Great Planet Earth and The Man Who Saw Tomorrow in my Netflix queue?
Perhaps I would be better off rewatching To The Devil A Daughter, Hammer Film's last horror feature, also adapted from a novel by Wheatley, and starring Lee as a defrocked priest whose Satanic goal is to turn Natassja Kinsky into an avatar of the demon Astaroth on her eighteenth birthday. Curiously, Astaroth, demon of the first hierarchy and prince of accusers and inquisitors, is the demon summoned by Rabbi Loew to reveal the magic word that will animate the legendary Golem, savior of the Jews of Prague, in director/actor Paul Wegener's expressionist masterpiece, Der Golem, which was photographed by, yes, Karl Freund, director of the original Mummy, mentor to Gregg Toland, photographer of Citizen Kane, and so on and so on and so on...
I've missed you, you've been so reticent lately! I wrote that little Mummy bit specifically to smoke you out. It's been a depressing week, and I need a little levity to put a smile on my face!
Of course none of us here would ever go in for that sort of thing. For instance, I would never note that the star of Hammer Film's glorious Technicolor remake of The Mummy (named Kharis, from the Universal sequels, but revived by the Scroll, as per the original) is the great Christopher Lee; who, only a few years earlier, had appeared as A Stage Manager/Starbuck in the unreleased and now lost TV version of Welles' play Moby Dick Rehearsed. Lee, who seems to have known everyone, was good friends with occult novelist Dennis Wheatley. Several of Wheatley's novels (including The Devil Rides Out, later made into a film by Hammer starring Lee) feature a character very obviously based on The Great Beast himself, Aleister Crowley, purported grandfather of the 43rd POTUS, now presiding over what may be the most devastating financial and economic meltdown of the capitalist era, an event so cataclysmic that some of our more hysterical and mystical commentators are using that dread word...Armageddon! As I said, it has been a rough week. Do I need to put The Late Great Planet Earth and The Man Who Saw Tomorrow in my Netflix queue?
Perhaps I would be better off rewatching To The Devil A Daughter, Hammer Film's last horror feature, also adapted from a novel by Wheatley, and starring Lee as a defrocked priest whose Satanic goal is to turn Natassja Kinsky into an avatar of the demon Astaroth on her eighteenth birthday. Curiously, Astaroth, demon of the first hierarchy and prince of accusers and inquisitors, is the demon summoned by Rabbi Loew to reveal the magic word that will animate the legendary Golem, savior of the Jews of Prague, in director/actor Paul Wegener's expressionist masterpiece, Der Golem, which was photographed by, yes, Karl Freund, director of the original Mummy, mentor to Gregg Toland, photographer of Citizen Kane, and so on and so on and so on...
Last edited by mido505 on Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Glenn Anders
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Dear mido: Often, when others, like Baesen and keats (what a comedy team, that one), are knowingly or inadvertently making my points, there is no need for me to intercede. Recent postings on this thread give Amon Ra-Ra examples of this principle. Besides I've been celebrating my birthday, in the company of my family and Mr. French.
Your very amusing and informative cinematic ribbon chase does point up the absurdity of many of our arguments. Possibly few of these matters you illuminate really are connected. But again (to paraphrase), as Welles so famously has Jake Hannaford advise: We may borrow from others, but never from ourselves.
A number of us were sitting around a week ago Sunday at The Ha-Ra Club, where I had just received an honorary degree from Ha-Ra University for distinguished "Bartender Irritancy," when I sprang on Toddy Baesen the curious coincidence that there is a film critic (late of the Washington Post, now free-lancing) named Desson Thomson.
I wondered aloud if this Mr. Thomson might really be our own bestial San Francisco critic, David Thomson amusing himself making a funky play on words, at our expense.
I could see the gin run cold in Baesen's veins!
It was the end of a perfect Birthday . . . .
Carry on, mido.
Glenn
Your very amusing and informative cinematic ribbon chase does point up the absurdity of many of our arguments. Possibly few of these matters you illuminate really are connected. But again (to paraphrase), as Welles so famously has Jake Hannaford advise: We may borrow from others, but never from ourselves.
A number of us were sitting around a week ago Sunday at The Ha-Ra Club, where I had just received an honorary degree from Ha-Ra University for distinguished "Bartender Irritancy," when I sprang on Toddy Baesen the curious coincidence that there is a film critic (late of the Washington Post, now free-lancing) named Desson Thomson.
I wondered aloud if this Mr. Thomson might really be our own bestial San Francisco critic, David Thomson amusing himself making a funky play on words, at our expense.
I could see the gin run cold in Baesen's veins!
It was the end of a perfect Birthday . . . .
Carry on, mido.
Glenn