THE DEEP

Harvey Chartrand · Post by **Harvey Chartrand** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:00 pm

Just read that Peter Bogdanovich's next project is 'Natasha,' a biopic of Natalie Wood, who as a child co-starred with Welles in the dreadful weepie 'Tomorrow is Forever', the first truly meretricious film that Welles deigned to appear in. Like Bogdanovich's 'The Cat's Meow', 'Natasha' is set aboard a yacht, the one that Natalie Wood was trying to flee the night she drowned in 1981.
Then there's talk that 'The Deep' may finally surface in theatres everywhere. (I can't wait to see what Laurence Harvey does with the psycho role.) And who can forget the exotic scenes on Errol Flynn's yacht in 'The Lady from Shanghai'?
Although a landlubber, Welles had a nice cameo as a Cuban dealmaker in 'Voyage of the Damned', another nautical narrative. Welles also played the white slave trader Louis of Mozambique in Tony Richardson's rarely-seen 'The Sailor from Gibraltar.'
Shortly before his death, Welles, his voice shot to pieces, narrated 'The Last Sailors', the story of the brave men and women who, with their ancient crafts, still harness the wind and the sea for their livelihood — it was almost a return to the themes of man versus the elements that preoccupied Welles on 'It's All True'. Lastly, Welles directed the minimalist 'The Immortal Story', about an old man's futile attempt to make a sailor's legend come true.

jaime marzol · Post by **jaime marzol** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 2:02 am

...............

great news, harvey. wouldn't it be incredible to finally see The Deep, and at a theater. if The Deep makes the rounds and earns money, TOSOTW i bet will follow. i didn't think of Lady From Shanghai in context with The Deep, but yes, intersting point. There could be some incredible shots in The Deep. I'm one of those that does not agree with the critics that welles' talent diminished with age. i think he was a better filmmaker in later life than he was in his earlier years. it's his budget that diminished, not him.

i wonder what lawrence harvey will look like in The Deep? he looked almost near death in F-For Fake. I've only seen him in 2 films before seeing him in F-For Fake, John Wayne's The Alamo, where he was the picture of health, and in some odd film with Paul Newman called The Outrage, where again, he looked in good health. any one know how long after F-For Fake he died, and of what?

Harvey Chartrand · Post by **Harvey Chartrand** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:28 am

You ask about Laurence Harvey. He was a strange kind of star — often dour and unlikeable. Jane Fonda, Harvey's co-star in 'Walk on the Wild Side', told reporters that his poker-faced performance sank the picture (although this chilly disposition made him the perfect choice to play the brainwashed Korean War hero in 'The Manchurian Candidate').
Elizabeth Taylor adored Harvey, who was excellent in 'BUTterfield 8', and insisted on working with him again on 'Night Watch' (1973), when his career was on a downward arc. It was during the low cycle that followed 'Darling' (1965) that Harvey began working with Welles. They co-starred in the two-part epic 'Fight for Rome' (1968), in which Harvey was cast as Roman nobleman Cethegus and Welles as Emperor Justinian. While filming this drama of the fall of the Roman Empire in Romania, Welles and Harvey hit it off. They then traveled to Yugoslavia to film 'The Deep'. The clip of Harvey and a clean-shaven Welles that appears in 'F for Fake' was shot in a train station in Zagreb during the making of 'The Deep'. (Welles is bearded in the rest of 'F for Fake'.) Harvey's stomach cancer had not yet been diagnosed. He died in 1973 at age 45.
I recently saw Harvey's final picture — 'Welcome to Arrow Beach', a film about cannibalism released in 1974 (12 years before 'Manhunter', which introduced Hannibal [The Cannibal] Lecter). Harvey looked older and gaunt, but does not appear to be terminally ill. However, 'Welcome to Arrow Beach' — which Harvey also directed — is slapdash and just plain terrible. Imagine a horror movie with a theme song by — Lou Rawls!
In his autobiography 'Knight Errant', actor Robert Stephens speculates that Harvey's strange dietary practices did him in. Harvey sucked the juices out of meat and then spat out the meat along with the bones. His interest in cannibalism is perplexing.

Jeff Wilson · Post by **Jeff Wilson** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 2:18 pm

wouldn't it be incredible to finally see The Deep, and at a theater. if The Deep makes the rounds and earns money, TOSOTW i bet will follow.

I don't see why THE DEEP will come out any sooner than OSotW; they're both picture with Oja Kodar, that she was supposedly left rights to. Why would Beatrice Welles let this be released and not OSotW? I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon, unless something unexpected happens.

And Lawrence Harvey was great in THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, a film I just watched again the other day. That nutritional tidbit about L. Harvey mentioned by Harvey C. was...odd.

fantomas · Post by **fantomas** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 7:28 pm

as far as i understood the munich film museum is already working on a restoration of THE DEEP. the rough cut which was shown in the welles conference was announced to be the very first step of the work. they said that it will need about two years until the digital restoration will be finished. obviously beatrice's power doesn't reach to europe. maybe TOSOTW should also be done there.
in my eyes THE DEEP is not as good as DEAD CALM but completely different and much closer to the novel. laurence harvey is good in the scenes when he is threatening oja kodar and when he changes his mood within a moment. but somehow it's really strange to hear laurence harvey speaking with the voice of orson welles.

Jeff Wilson · Post by **Jeff Wilson** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:10 am

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see this material get wider release in Europe, but doesn't France have some law granting family wider latitude in protecting its artistic rights? I was under the impression that was how she was able to get the screening of Touch of Evil scuttled at Cannes.

The Deep does sound interesting, and the footage on One Man Band isn't really enough to go by. I certainly wish them luck restoring it.

jaime marzol · Post by **jaime marzol** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:12 am

Maybe one of the reasons that bea welles is allowing The Deep, and not OSOTW, is that The Deep is more of a straight forward motion picture, making it harder to ruin in the editing process, and it's not a legendary unfinished film, has none of the clout associated with OSOTW. but i'm just guesssing.

if done properly, OSOTW could redeem welles in the eyes of the non beleivers, and could be the big casino for the estate.

i've read more than a few times that The Deep was a minor effort by welles.

Harvey Chartrand · Post by **Harvey Chartrand** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:23 am

Even 'minor Welles' would tower over the 'major work' of most other film directors. How many of those 'major motion pictures' that are hyped up every week are remembered 2 or 3 years down the road? And here we are discussing a motion pictured filmed 35 years ago that hasn't even been released!

jaime marzol · Post by **jaime marzol** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:54 pm

....................

harvey, i've walked out of movie theaters, and 3 or 4 hours later had a hard time remembering what movie i just saw.

welles' least is more interesting then a lesser director's best.

i was offering the crit i've read on The Deep as a possible answer for the estate not filling 600 motions against the release.

maxrael · Post by **maxrael** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:59 am

i just spent ages typing a detailed post when my pesky computer crashed and i lost it all before i'd pressed the post button!

Anyway, here i go again! Last night i went to see the Orson Welles: Unfinished Work and Orson Welles and TV: Programme 1 showing at the National Film Theatre (UK).

Before the Unfinished Work programme there was a brief talk by Stefan Droessler director of the Filmmuseum in Munich.
After there was a question and answer session with Stefan and Oja Kodar.

Bearing in mind, the unreliability of human memory, i'll post what i heard on the above and other topics!

In his introduction Stefan said that although the original negative is still missing they have one b&w and one colour workprint which they are currently in the process of restoring. He anticipated the restoration project will be completed in 2005, though was unsure whether it would be a fully assembled version or in documentary form.

The programme started with a restored version of the excellent F for Fake trailer, followed by a Welles-completed trailer for The Deep. Apparently only a b&w work print is currently known to exist, but i thought it looked stunning in b&w! The trailer sets the story up well, and has a heavy, pervasive air of menace throughout... it started with OW's voice introducing it as a trailer talking about the clips, then moving on to address the story... it finished with OW saying something along the lines of, What happens next?.. We'll leave that for the ticket buyers...

Onto the actual clips of The Deep, they were presented in a mixture of mostly colour with some b&w... with varying quality audio, some with camera noise, some places had complete audio dropouts. Some of it had music! kind of a double bass infested jazz workout!

I think i've previously made the foolish mistake of assuming that because The Deep was a deliberately commercial project and that Orson 'apparently' lost interest in and abandoned it that it would probably not rank amongst my favourites of his works... but the clips displayed were quite simply stunning... it felt really edgy, like it would make an amazing thriller, some really powerful scenes...

After the programme Oja addressed the events that led to the projects indefinite postponement.
She said it wasn't due to the death of Laurence Harvey or that OW simply abandoned it... but it was due to the age old problem of financing!! and some other difficulties...
I'm not too clear on the exact story behind the films production/financing but she spoke of Orson surrendering his director's fees in return for film services supplied by Yugoslavia... these services were handled at best poorly and OW was treated pretty shabbily by all involved which led to OW becoming disheartened... and it was becoming such a struggle to complete the picture OW resolved to move on and come back to the project when the situation seemed more favourable...

Hmm the first time i wrote this i'm sure it was much more eloquent!!

Oh and also Stefan indicated there is still hope for the recover of the stolen two reels of The Merchant Of Venice!

onwards and upwards,
max!

Jeff Wilson · Post by **Jeff Wilson** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:33 am

Good stuff, Max, thanks.

Glenn Anders · Post by **Glenn Anders** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:01 pm

Indeed, Max, you have brought wonderful news. If memory serves me, THE DEEP was another Welles' project which lacked only scene or two in order to be complete.

Oja Kodar deserves a tremendous amount of praise for conveying what (I believe that I remember) was upwards of a couple of tons of Welles material to the Munich Film museum. Her kind of diligence, tenacity and, above all, faithfulness is rare these days.

Thank you! Let us have more of these wonderful reports.

Glenn

71-1045893605 · Post by **71-1045893605** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:41 pm

It's nice to see Oja Kodar come out of hibernation and take part in a Welles tribute. According to my sources (one of them being Oja's American attorney), she hasn't contacted them for almost two years or anyone else for that matter, going into a "bizarre" hibernation period of not talking to anyone...even her own lawyers! Dozens of requests are made each year (many of them by wealthy patrons) to find, re-construct and digitally save all of Welles' work, but Oja never got back to any of these people. Like Bogdanovich says, Welles needed one benefactor to finance all of his films. Now that there are wealthy benefactors who are willing to help get Welles' work out there, Oja is nowhere to be found. Very strange if you ask me.

GA

ToddBaesen · Post by **ToddBaesen** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:07 pm

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Thanks for the detailed report, Max.

And I wonder why Oja didn't respond to offers for completion money. Seems very strange...

Narshty · Post by **Narshty** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 7:19 pm

To carry on the theme, I saw the Munich Filmmuseum assembly of excerpts from THE DREAMERS yesterday evening at the National Film Theatre. I actually bought my ticket to see the new print of SPIRIT OF THE BEEHIVE, but begged them to change it when I realised that it was the last screening of THE IMMORTAL STORY & THE DREAMERS that evening.

Well, it was very peculiar watching it at the time. Much of it consisted of one b&w monologue performed by Welles (playing Marcus, with an Eastern European accent - couldn't quite place it) lamenting Pellegrina the opera singer.

Everything else was photographed in very subdued colour. There were scenes of quiet conflict between Marcus and Pellegrina (Oja Kodar) that very much reminded me of Dreyer's GERTRUD. There's one extremely haunting sequence at night in the garden next to some iron railings where Pellegrina determines to leave. There's a terrific shot where she simply turns and walks right down to the other end of the garden away from the camera to leave, presumably forever - it feels so resolute and quietly devastating, and the camera just keeps rolling until she simply disappears among the foliage and ivy.

Some scenes had to be pasted together from footage shot (of Oja Kodar's half of a conversation) and then cutting to black where Welles gave his response (reading from a script - you can hear the pages turn on occasion, and would occasionally voice both characters). It seemed very odd and obscure at the time, but I'd give anything to see it again. Alas, that was the last screening (but thank God I saw it once!)

It was another Munich Filmmuseum reconstruction in association with Oja Kodar. I get the impression that this footage is now very much owned jointly between them, so hopefully Criterion (seeing as Welles is by far the most gaping hole in the collection) or someone could get the rights to these semi-finished snippets.

EDIT: This is what I saw. And the garden scene is every bit as stunning as the article makes it out to be.